New Bidirectional EVSE

[HuntingPudel]

I am at the Pacific Coast Builders Conference. Wallbox is showing off a new EVSE with bidirectional capability. It’s called the Quasar 2. They say it’s an updated version of the unit they are currently selling in Europe. Not much other info at the moment, but I am going to get some more. It is slated for release later this year and they will be selling through distribution, retailers, and online.

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[bshaw]

I'd be interested to know if there's a standard for the bi-directional EVSE? Like is that part of the J-1772 spec? There must also be some kind of isolation cutoff required to be installed, so its not just a swap into your existing circuit.

I don't think just having a capable EVSE will enable this capability for the MME. The vehicle has to have hardware to support it, like the Lightning has.

 

[HuntingPudel]

I'd be interested to know if there's a standard for the bi-directional EVSE? Like is that part of the J-1772 spec? There must also be some kind of isolation cutoff required to be installed, so its not just a swap into your existing circuit.

I don't think just having a capable EVSE will enable this capability for the MME. The vehicle has to have hardware to support it, like the Lightning has.

The unit has a CCS-1 connector. I have not read the CCS spec, but my assumption (I know, I know) Is that the bidirectional charging spec is part of the CCS spec. Access to the DC ports on the CCS connector on the car I believe is necessary since the AC connection cannot support the power draw.

You are correct that there will need to be additional electrical work done to the home in order to isolate, as well as hardware and firmware upgrades to the MME in order to make bidirectional charging a reality. I believe that currently only the F150 Lightning supports bidirectional charging, but we can wish.

 

[connoisseurr]

Info on the Quasar 2 came out early last year. Glad to see they're finally showcasing the product.

 

[TheCats]

A question you might ask is how they handle charging.

I'm curious if the EVSE provides charging power through the AC pins, using the onboard charger, and uses the DC pins exclusively to draw power from the battery. That simplifies the electronics in the box to basically a standard EVSE and a separate solar grid-tie inverter, which is something that they can get off-the-shelf.

 

[Maquis]

…the EVSE provides charging power through the AC pins, using the onboard charger, and uses the DC pins exclusively to draw power from the battery.

It has to be this way. It’s impossible to get AC out of the car on the same conductor pins used for charging.

 

[bshaw]

It has to be this way. It’s impossible to get AC out of the car on the same conductor pins used for charging.

I interpreted it the other way...
Like the EVSE only has a CCS plug and performs its charging using low power DCFC sent into the car. EVSE gets a lot more complicated to do it that way though...

 

[Maquis]

I interpreted it the other way...
Like the EVSE only has a CCS plug and performs its charging using low power DCFC sent into the car. EVSE gets a lot more complicated to do it that way though...

In that case, it’s not even an EVSE, it’s a charger.

 

[HuntingPudel]

A question you might ask is how they handle charging.

I'm curious if the EVSE provides charging power through the AC pins, using the onboard charger, and uses the DC pins exclusively to draw power from the battery. That simplifies the electronics in the box to basically a standard EVSE and a separate solar grid-tie inverter, which is something that they can get off-the-shelf.

From what they told me, this is the case.

 

[HuntingPudel]

In that case, it’s not even an EVSE, it’s a charger.

Yes, it is a 240V~ EVSE.

 

[dtbaker61]

A question you might ask is how they handle charging.

I'm curious if the EVSE provides charging power through the AC pins, using the onboard charger, and uses the DC pins exclusively to draw power from the battery. That simplifies the electronics in the box to basically a standard EVSE and a separate solar grid-tie inverter, which is something that they can get off-the-shelf.

not quite 'just a grid-tied inverter'. it might start with that to handle the frequency sync and voltage checks, but then there will have to be a way to 'throttle' to DC current. Solar modules output current is limited by rated max wattage output, EV batteries would dump short-circuit current unless throttled....

 

[louibluey]

It has to be this way. It’s impossible to get AC out of the car on the same conductor pins used for charging.

It is probably impossible in MME, I don't recall any AC inverter capability for VTL built into MME.

Ioniq 5 limited trim comes with a J1772 plug device (not a combo, no DC connections) that allows the car to provide a modest 120V load (230V abroad), something like 2 kW. They call it VTL (to load). There must be some power switching behind the connecter, not sure where the internal inverter is. The Ioniq 5 internal inverter is powered by the traction battery (not sure if direct which is preferable or after the DC/DC converter). There is very little in the VTL plug, just resistors, diode, and temperature sensor. You could power some home stuff like a gas furnace, but this VTL is far short of VTH, said to be coming later for Hyundai too.

V2L inner secrets (Not Many) from the Ioniq 5 forum.

See the video at about 0:46 for the external connector:

 

[ZuleMME]

It would have to do grid forming, similar to how the Enphase IQ8 works to detect needed load and adjust. What @dtbaker61 refers to. I further suspect the cheap solution in the initial build likely limits current flow to one direction. Akin to trying to flow energy backward through a diode, this is unlikely to work unless designed to work.

 

[dtbaker61]

What DOES work with the MME is to extract 12v from existing connection points and wire to a stand alone (off-grid) Inverter. Caveats to make sure the onboard dc-dc converter can keep up are:
1. make sure MME is ON, and auto-timeout is set OFF
2. make sure TOTAL 12v loads are no more than 2000 watts, and probably safest to stay below 1500

this means if you want to run a 1500watt teapot while camping, do NOT turn on eHeat or a/c as well.

If you want to run occasional bigger loads for brief periods in a whole house situation, I'd recommend putting a pretty good size 12v battery bank in the middle, and use the MME basically just as a battery charger jumpered direct to the external pack. Since the MME is holding the 12v at 14.4, the current will never go much higher than 40 amps if the 'big' battery bank doesn't discharge below 12.0

I have a 'little' battery backup system in my garage with about 8 kWhr of battery, hooked up to a 3000watt inverter. if grid goes out, I can:
1. isolate house w MAIN=off
2. turn off all big 240v circuits, including my grid-tied solar backfeed
3. backfeed inverter output thru my 14-50 EV charger outlet
4. jumper from MME to battery bank if its a long outage.... giving me access to whatever is in the MME HV battery (enough to run critical loads for DAYS)

 

[zephiyr]

What DOES work with the MME is to extract 12v from existing connection points and wire to a stand alone (off-grid) Inverter. Caveats to make sure the onboard dc-dc converter can keep up are:
1. make sure MME is ON, and auto-timeout is set OFF
2. make sure TOTAL 12v loads are no more than 2000 watts, and probably safest to stay below 1500

this means if you want to run a 1500watt teapot while camping, do NOT turn on eHeat or a/c as well.

If you want to run occasional bigger loads for brief periods in a whole house situation, I'd recommend putting a pretty good size 12v battery bank in the middle, and use the MME basically just as a battery charger jumpered direct to the external pack. Since the MME is holding the 12v at 14.4, the current will never go much higher than 40 amps if the 'big' battery bank doesn't discharge below 12.0

I have a 'little' battery backup system in my garage with about 8 kWhr of battery, hooked up to a 3000watt inverter. if grid goes out, I can:
1. isolate house w MAIN=off
2. turn off all big 240v circuits, including my grid-tied solar backfeed
3. backfeed inverter output thru my 14-50 EV charger outlet
4. jumper from MME to battery bank if its a long outage.... giving me access to whatever is in the MME HV battery (enough to run critical loads for DAYS)

Slick, what equipment are you using? I can make out the inverter but not the batteries in your photos.