New Mach-E LFP Battery Specs Revealed

[MHouse]

As someone who lived through a week of -30, I'm glad to have a NCM pack. I imagine there will be no information that is shared with Northern dealers about this issue, so it will be up to consumers to do their own research.

I'm not sure Ford is prepared for the wrath that buyers may unleash on them if they suddenly lose more than half their battery range in colder weather below -5 C. I've had stories of people returning their electric F-150s in Canada because of the poor performance in cold winters.

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[Mach-Lee]

Their marketing for LFP touts faster charging speed, so that's why I'm confused with these specs.

Yes, they will need to define how the LFP has a faster charging speed. I'm not sure. Maybe the metric will be to 100%?

I believe I’ve previously read that all Mach-Es, even the standard range ones, have the physical space for the extended range batteries, but that this space is simply not fully used up with the current standard range batteries - empty space below the rear seats for the standard range models.

Might that explain some or all of the higher battery capacity than anticipated? That these new batteries make better use of the available battery space on the standard trims?

Yes, this LFP pack will use the bump under the rear seat to increase capacity, which is currently empty space on standard range vehicles.

As someone who lived through a week of -30, I'm glad to have a NCM pack. I imagine there will be no information that is shared with Northern dealers about this issue, so it will be up to consumers to do their own research.

I'm not sure Ford is prepared for the wrath that buyers may unleash on them if they suddenly lose more than half their battery range in colder weather below -5 C. I've had stories of people returning their electric F-150s in Canada because of the poor performance in cold winters.

If you live in Canada you probably aren't going to want LFP. Only if you can live with a lot of limitations on acceleration, range, and charging speed. This is a chemistry that works best for warmer climates.

 

[maktas1973]

I think the cold weather issues are pure speculation as is the acceleration. We may need to look at Teslas LFP products to get a real sense

 

[azerik]

Tesla tells people charge LFP's to 100% all the time it's encouraged. I assume that's the 0 overhead mentioned before. But Ford says charge faster and more often. I thought nightly was a lot. Maybe if we had a 1 mile road we could drive over, over and over. Maybe that's what they mean.

 

[Phil Martin]

This feels like such a huge step backwards. Why is this being promoted as a good thing?

I'm thinking materials from domestic supply.

 

[Blue highway]

This feels like such a huge step backwards. Why is this being promoted as a good thing?

because

• its cheaper and more price stable (you have to be able to predict costs to set pricing)
• can be charged to 100% with little degradation

 

[Mach-Lee]

I think the cold weather issues are pure speculation as is the acceleration. We may need to look at Teslas LFP products to get a real sense

Yes, a lot of this is my own preliminary speculation so it should be taken with a grain of salt. But keep in mind Tesla has a lot better battery heating and insulation technology than Ford does. They can deliver a lot more heat to the pack while driving than we can, and it doesn't cool off as fast. That may better compensate for the cold weather LFP limitations that are well known. But yes, a look a Tesla LFP would be insightful:

Bjørn Nyland Tests How Cold LFP Battery Affects Tesla Model 3

 

[Blue highway]

The discharge can exceed 1C for short periods... say for acceleration. could have a different "5 second limit"

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

If I remember correctly, Ford currently goes beyond the LG's specified maximum "standard" charge rate with the Mustang's NCM batteries. I see a peak of about 425A (~150 kW) and a quick drop to about 280 to 300 A for the first 5-10 minutes and then the almost linear decline in rate; that first jolt is much higher than the E71A charge rating specs allow for (about ~160 A at 2C or 80A at 1C).

Also note that a few minutes at a very high charge rate and then the relatively conservative charge curve Ford uses right now would not average out very differently from an ~80 kW charge rate for the full charge all the way up to 80-85% without a surge at the beginning of the charge for 5-10 minutes. Even with the declining rate from 80% to 100%, with this new chemistry, the battery should be able to sustain a higher average charge rate.

If Ford uses a similar approach to give a big boost at the beginning of the charge session, the charge rate could average closer to 85-90 kW, maybe even up to 100 kW depending on the exact curve Ford decides to use. This could save 5-15 minutes on charging time for a 20-80% charge cycle.

 

[kltye]

I think the cold weather issues are pure speculation as is the acceleration. We may need to look at Teslas LFP products to get a real sense

Unless there has been a generational leap for LFP, its low temperature and power output performance is a well-known quantity. The difference is how well Ford has engineered the pack to compensate for the shortcomings - which if past experience is a guide, they'd have done a perfectly cromulent job, but probably nothing outstanding.

 

[Blue highway]

If I remember correctly, Ford currently goes beyond the LG's specified maximum "standard" charge rate with the Mustang's NCM batteries. I see a peak of about 425A (~150 kW) and a quick drop to about 280 to 300 A for the first 5-10 minutes and then the almost linear decline in rate; that first jolt is much higher than the E71A charge rating specs allow for (about ~160 A at 2C or 80A at 1C).

Also note that a few minutes at a very high charge rate and then the relatively conservative charge curve Ford uses right now would not average out very differently from an ~80 kW charge rate for the full charge all the way up to 80-85% without a surge at the beginning of the charge for 5-10 minutes. Even with the declining rate from 80% to 100%, with this new chemistry, the battery should be able to sustain a higher average charge rate.

If Ford uses a similar approach to give a big boost at the beginning of the charge session, the charge rate could average closer to 85-90 kW, maybe even up to 100 kW depending on the exact curve Ford decides to use. This could save 5-15 minutes on charging time for a 20-80% charge cycle.

ford caps the current NMC batteries at 1.5C for short periods. Thus the 150kW and 115kW peaks for ER (4P) and SR (3P) packs

 

[MachEMaster]

Looks like the Select is about to get even Worse winter range and performance

 

[tomterky]

So, basically what this is saying is that these new batteries are useless in Minnesota as the temps this winter have been as low as -28f air temp with -50f real feal. Very interesting.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

ford caps the current NMC batteries at 1.5C for short periods. Thus the 150kW and 115kW peaks for ER (4P) and SR (3P) packs

And if they do the same for the LFPs, the new batteries will likely have the same 5-10 minute surge of 150 kW and then a sustained charge rate of ~80 kW after that initial surge, with minimal decrease in charge rate up to 80-85% or even up to 100% SOC. This will bump the average charge rate up and the average charge time down considerably.

 

[MHouse]

I think the cold weather issues are pure speculation as is the acceleration. We may need to look at Teslas LFP products to get a real sense

LFP Teslas in Canada have had reduced acceleration during the cold-spells we have had, and it's generally a safety issue when trying to merge onto the highway. It's also generally annoying to purchase a vehicle that touts performance and get sub-optimal performance for half the year.

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