Nissan Ariya Debut on July 15th

[ChasingCoral]

And even if there's good DCFC coverage for a planned route, there's the fact it takes 10x longer to DCFC charge than to fill up with gas. And you have to stop at least 2x as frequently.

Please, let's not over exaggerate this. Unless you don't ever go to the restroom, charging stops are not 10X longer. You can't legally pee and fill your gas tank at the same time. To do so would require either leaving your car unattended while it fuels or public urination. Then there's stopping for food. Man of these things can easily be done while charging, reducing the time difference.

Stopping 2x as frequently? While closer to reality than the 10X time that is probably a bit of an exaggeration as well. How frequently do you really stop for gas? What's that average range? How does that compare to a BEV?

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[FredT]

The Ariya isn’t bad but I’d put it behind the ID.4.

Me too, way behind.

 

[DaveRuns]

Please, let's not over exaggerate this. Unless you don't ever go to the restroom, charging stops are not 10X longer. You can't legally pee and fill your gas tank at the same time. To do so would require either leaving your car unattended while it fuels or public urination. Then there's stopping for food. Man of these things can easily be done while charging, reducing the time difference.

Stopping 2x as frequently? While closer to reality than the 10X time that is probably a bit of an exaggeration as well. How frequently do you really stop for gas? What's that average range? How does that compare to a BEV?

This will affect me in the sense that I’m the type that only stops when I absolutely need to for gas, and maybe a quick pee immediately after. I never stop and sit for food. Normally I’ll either have snacks with me or I’ll go through a drive thru. It’ll take some adjustment for me. Granted, I don’t take a whole lot of extended road trips, and if I do, I’ll probably take my wife’s Jeep Grand Cherokee.

 

[trutolife27]

The longer the drive the more stops and the longer the difference between ice and BEV.
Like I said in another post our trip down to Florida took us an extra 5 hours there and back.

 

[trutolife27]

 

[Dan G]

This will affect me in the sense that I’m the type that only stops when I absolutely need to for gas, and maybe a quick pee immediately after. I never stop and sit for food. Normally I’ll either have snacks with me or I’ll go through a drive thru. It’ll take some adjustment for me. Granted, I don’t take a whole lot of extended road trips, and if I do, I’ll probably take my wife’s Jeep Grand Cherokee.

This is what my post was about. Obviously, do what you're comfortable with. But, once you plug in, go inside and use the restroom, and buy yourself a water it's time to go back to your car and find your next stop. I never sit and eat. Although you definitely could if you wanted to drive longer segments.

And now when I get to where I'm going, I just feel better because it's just a more relaxed drive and it's easier to take care of your body.

 

[mattsaradan]

Please, let's not over exaggerate this. Unless you don't ever go to the restroom, charging stops are not 10X longer. You can't legally pee and fill your gas tank at the same time. To do so would require either leaving your car unattended while it fuels or public urination. Then there's stopping for food. Man of these things can easily be done while charging, reducing the time difference.

Stopping 2x as frequently? While closer to reality than the 10X time that is probably a bit of an exaggeration as well. How frequently do you really stop for gas? What's that average range? How does that compare to a BEV?

So, if I can split the difference - I recall Darren Palmer said the MME is targeting early majority - not early adopters who will accept big tradeoffs for new tech, however not yet full mainstream. And that to me is about where we are. I have two regular longish (325+/- miles) road trips from Baltimore - south on I-81 to Blacksburg, VA to see my daughter at Virginia Tech and north on I-81 to see my mom and sister in Syracuse. According to ABRB, using my MME4 the trip south, where there are lots of DCFC, will use the same route I use in an ICE and require two stops totaling 40 minutes which is about the same as I humanly require in an ICE. North through PA is a different matter; ABRB says I will need to take an alternate route that adds 15 miles/25 minutes and stop twice totaling hour and 20 minutes (because I will need to charge well past 80% to make it to then next stop). That's a real tradeoff. And even if I had the larger battery, ABRB says I'd still need to take the longer route and stop twice. Just no good DCFC infrastructure in PA other than along I-95. At present, the best compromise is probably a PHEV. My Fusion Energi has a hybrid "range" of over 500 miles, which beats even an ICE. So stops on those routes are entirely to satisfy human needs. For that reason, our next car after the MME we expect to get the Escape PHEV. As @DBC noted, the 37 mile EV range is enough that my wife will rarely use the gas engine in daily driving but we'll have the flexibility when we need it. By the time we get to late majority - 5-10 years from now - there will be plenty of infrastructure everywhere. FWIW, a standard range M3 could make the trip to Syracuse on the same ICE route, with a 20 minute stop at the superchargers at the same shopping center we usually stop at, roughly halfway. Looking at you EA.

 

[ChasingCoral]

So, if I can split the difference - I recall Darren Palmer said the MME is targeting early majority - not early adopters who will accept big tradeoffs for new tech, however not yet full mainstream. And that to me is about where we are. I have two regular longish (325+/- miles) road trips from Baltimore - south on I-81 to Blacksburg, VA to see my daughter at Virginia Tech and north on I-81 to see my mom and sister in Syracuse. According to ABRB, using my MME4 the trip south, where there are lots of DCFC, will use the same route I use in an ICE and require two stops totaling 40 minutes which is about the same as I humanly require in an ICE. North through PA is a different matter; ABRB says I will need to take an alternate route that adds 15 miles/25 minutes and stop twice totaling hour and 20 minutes (because I will need to charge well past 80% to make it to then next stop). That's a real tradeoff. And even if I had the larger battery, ABRB says I'd still need to take the longer route and stop twice. Just no good DCFC infrastructure in PA other than along I-95. At present, the best compromise is probably a PHEV. My Fusion Energi has a hybrid "range" of over 500 miles, which beats even an ICE. So stops on those routes are entirely to satisfy human needs. For that reason, our next car after the MME we expect to get the Escape PHEV. As @DBC noted, the 37 mile EV range is enough that my wife will rarely use the gas engine in daily driving but we'll have the flexibility when we need it. By the time we get to late majority - 5-10 years from now - there will be plenty of infrastructure everywhere. FWIW, a standard range M3 could make the trip to Syracuse on the same ICE route, with a 20 minute stop at the superchargers at the same shopping center we usually stop at, roughly halfway. Looking at you EA.

Absolutely right. When we look at routes that are underserved with charging infrastructure we see a real difference between ICE and BEV travel. As you point out, though, that will be solved in a few years as BEV infrastructure is built out. I'm still annoyed at the total lack of high-speed CCS DCFC in West Virginia.

 

[DBC]

And that to me is about where we are. I have two regular longish (325+/- miles) road trips from Baltimore - south on I-81 to Blacksburg, VA to see my daughter at Virginia Tech and north on I-81 to see my mom and sister in Syracuse. According to ABRB, using my MME4 the trip south, where there are lots of DCFC, will use the same route I use in an ICE and require two stops totaling 40 minutes which is about the same as I humanly require in an ICE. North through PA is a different matter;

As I've pointed out before, with so few stations, the reliability of the stations becomes very important. And charging rate, and to a lesser extent the charging curve, are more important than small differences in range.

That said, if the stations were reliable, I'd be comfortable that I could get to Syracuse from Baltimore with one stop in Allentown. If things looked dicey a quick stop in Kirkwood would fit the bill. The return route would be easier.

The other factor is that range is somewhat under your control. Reduce your speed from 75-80 MPH to 68 MPH and your range will go up by quite a bit.

PHEVs are a great solution but they're expensive since they require two propulsion systems.

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