No more road trips with our Mach-E. A 2 hour drive to Joshua Tree turns into a 3 hour drive.

KevinS

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Sure, although for some reason Tesla isn't having this problem, despite the same potential issues with transformers, grid reliability, supply limitations, etc. It may be due to better design and quality of their SC system, and they are doing a much better job maintaining their hardware. Tesla doesn't have any excuses because they don't need to make them. They just invest in their hardware, which is something I don't believe EA or EVGo have done a good job with (yet).
I'm talking about things utility companies are dealing with in getting things to complete infrastructure projects on their end, which is something I have direct experience with.
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RickMachE

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One of the challenges in discussing EV infrastructure is point of reference, just like discussing anything. People who live in say, California, have a vastly different experience than those living in say the Midwest. Lines? No lines here. Also, not the population of EVs that you have, nor the population of people.

Yes, if you want to take a trip to somewhere that is "remote", or in a less-populated area, you may need to divert. You may not want to do that.

We took a trip to the middle of Indiana this summer. We had to take a detour to get enough charge to make it to almost our destination, then charge up there because the destination had no chargers. No big deal, just some time. If you don't like taking time, and want to just GET THERE, then you should never have an EV.

But, the point is, you can't compare Tesla SuperChargers in California, where the most EVs are in the country, where Teslas are made, to anything else - it's just silly. Sure, they have 20 stations. Sure, a bunch are empty when people are at work. Not a great utilization of the hardware during the day then.

They just put like 10 SuperChargers in at our Meijer grocery store, and immediately there were Teslas there using it, because there is nothing anywhere near there.

Here's a map of Tesla Superchargers in the greater Detroit area:

Ford Mustang Mach-E No more road trips with our Mach-E. A 2 hour drive to Joshua Tree turns into a 3 hour drive. tesla super chargers in detroit.PNG


Here's a map of EA chargers in the same area. Does this mean EA is awful? No, Tesla has had chargers for over a decade, and THEY have poor coverage.

Ford Mustang Mach-E No more road trips with our Mach-E. A 2 hour drive to Joshua Tree turns into a 3 hour drive. detroit EA.PNG
 

Subdude

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There's a saying "We don't have to agree on anything to be kind to one another" - I appreciate you sharing your experience. As a newbie, the barrier to entry is extremely high. I took a leap of faith that we're going hitting an inflection point and need to definitely keep pressure on. I don't think any of us are stupid - we just need more information!

This forum is just about the only place I get useful information - the dealship basically handed me the keys and said "Good luck" - they don't respond to emails, rarely are available by phone, and rarer still return my calls.

In addition to the gap in chargers and available information about them, there's a fundamental communication gap - it's very difficult for a newbie to get started with the Mustang Mach e.

Everyone talks about "Plug & Charge" - but, I can't figure out how to sign up for it or access it. I'm going to the dealership in person today to try to get an answer.

ABRP is probably the best for route planning, though even it can be a challenge (e.g. units are metric, currency in Euros - you have to google the issue to find the place in settings to change it).

Plugshare gave me a route once - I closed the window on my computer and had to Google how to find the Trip Planner again.

I probably made a mistake buying the standard range Mach e . . . I did it mainly because I had a hunch I might get the car sooner if I didn't ask for anything special (got it in a little under 9 months). And, I'm retired, so my time frames are usually flexible.

I appreciate all those who responded to my earlier request for help - you all got me pointed in the right direction. I'm not looking for answers to the above . . . just pointing out that nothing about trip planning is easy with these vehicles.
 

SolarAB

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The number of chargers that don't work properly or not at all is unacceptable for sure. The electric charging industry has a long way to go, including Tesla that bans other manufacturers' vehicles. Imagine if the gas pumps didn't work whenever you pulled into a gas station.
 

SolarAB

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I have a few points:
  • Are you using Plug & Charge? You shouldn't have to mess with station activation. You can also set up Autocharge+ on EVgo.
  • You can check EA live availability in the Ford navigation system. Assuming the data is correct, you could have seen the EA station was full on the way there and stopped somewhere else. Or done the same in the EA app.
  • After having trouble at the first EVgo station, why didn't you go to the other EVgo station 1 mile away that has great reviews on PlugShare? The one you tried has horrible reviews.
  • I think having your wife block a charging spot so you could jump the line wasn't cool. First come first serve is how it always should work.
  • If your car has trouble with DCFC stations, it may need an OBCC module update to improve compatibility. You can check with Mike G to see if it's available for you car (you may have gotten it as an OTA).
  • Tesla route planning and Supercharger availability is certainly better, but like you said you can only blame so much on Ford here. It's not Ford's fault the charging stations are busy or broken. The Ford nav also tells you where to stop and how much to charge too just like Tesla.
  • Stopping at the station at night on the way back probably would have been the better choice. Not as busy. Pro tip right there, travel/charge at night so you get empty stations and higher charge rates. 12 PM to 6 PM on a weekend is the worst time to go to an EA station.
In a nutshell, I feel like you took the EA station availability for granted traveling at a peak time, which caused you to get angry because it was busy. If you're in a hurry, you should check the station status on the way and divert to an alternate charging station if necessary. The EA stations can get really busy at peak times, which is why traveling early in the morning or at night is better. You should set up and use Plug & Charge to save the aggravation, that works way better than using a credit card. Getting that OBCC update may help too. But if you're that angry, go ahead and sell the Mach-E and get a Tesla. They're cheap right now.
A quick note on Plug & Charge in Canada: It doesn't work, (by design, not allowed) but it does trash the Electrify Canada software. I've had to phone EC every time to start a charging session, so they can bypass the attempt by EC software to use Plug & Charge for payment.
 


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I'm talking about things utility companies are dealing with in getting things to complete infrastructure projects on their end, which is something I have direct experience with.
Given your experience in this area, what are your thoughts on how Tesla has been able to build so many stations and keep them in good working condition? Obviously, they're dealing with utility companies just like EA and EVGo. What is Tesla doing so well that the CCS charging companies can't seem to make work?

I'm also curious about negotiating with utility companies on establishing a high capacity (high demand) charging location. When I look at PlugShare, there are stretches with multiple "coming soon" DCFC stations, but they're all being held up because of local utility negotiations. Along those same routes, there are several Tesla stations already in service (presumably getting electricity from the same utility).
 
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KevinS

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They made their charging strategy a major priority and have been since the beginning. It's paying dividends. Their charging station efforts well precede the pandemic so they were in a much better place to have stockpiles of components and be providing them to the utilities as needed.

I also have no doubt that they have been scouting out ideal locations for sites relative to ease of electrification for a very long time, and are simply filling in locations between their existing network.

No matter what anyone thinks of Tesla's cars, their charging network is superior to anyone else in every way.

EA came into being as a forced mandate due to VW's 'Dieselgate' scandal and has all signs of being maintained begrudgingly. As such, they're on the 'spot market' for components and it shows.
 

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Does this mean EA is awful? No, Tesla has had chargers for over a decade, and THEY have poor coverage.
I agree that the Midwest is much different than the DCFC mess in California (thank goodness), although recent charging experience in Michigan/Ohio suggests that we're starting to hit the wall with respect to charger demand vs. availability. Up until now, I've only waited once for an EA charger (and then for only 2-3 minutes), but recently I'm seeing stations near or at capacity nearly all the time.

Given Tesla's national buildout, they have oversupply of SC stations in the Midwest; they could make SO MUCH money by opening those up to CCS vehicles. Although their coverage in Detroit (as you pointed out in your map) appears to be poor overall, it is still way better than EA.

At the time I wrote this comment, 6 of 14 EA stalls in the three SE Michigan locations are available (the Meijer site in Roseville is currently full). Assuming the 7 Tesla stations in SE Michigan each have 10-12 stations, that's ~70-80 stalls. That's a huge opportunity for CCS charging, and would greatly improve coverage/reliability if Tesla would open them up to us.
 

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This really isn’t a Mach E thing, it’s an anything but a Tesla thing. The charging infrastructure sucks, and it’s only gonna get worse as more people get cars that run on electricity. I think once the Tesla Network opens up to public charging, it will help a lot. Five years from now, I think the charging of the structure will be a lot better, and 20 years from now it will be no different, then go to fill up at a gas station. This is just the price you pay for getting in on the laser disc revolution.
 

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Given your experience in this area, what are your thoughts on how Tesla has been able to build so many stations and keep them in good working condition? Obviously, they're dealing with utility companies just like EA and EVGo. What is Tesla doing so well that the CCS charging companies can't seem to make work?

I'm also curious about negotiating with utility companies on establishing a high capacity (high demand) charging location. When I look at PlugShare, there are stretches with multiple "coming soon" DCFC stations, but they're all being held up because of local utility negotiations. Along those same routes, there are several Tesla stations already in service (presumably getting electricity from the same utility).
The difference seems obvious to me. Tesla saw infrastructure as essential to their business model, whereas, EA was VW's penance for having lied about "clean diesel." Tesla bought in, VW couldn't wait "to be done."
 

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Although I agree with the basic arithmetic and critique that has been raised here and elsewhere about the substantial power and energy requirements to convert the US fleet from ICE to BEV, clearly this isn't going to happen overnight, and further there is a lot of academic thinking on how power sourcing and distribution will have to be done to support the entire US economy, let alone transportation. One such example is the Net Zero America project centered at Princeton University.

A warning for the faint of heart when reading the above lit, its docs are a pretty wonky, (i.e. don't expect Scott Pelley to pop up and start spouting energy units as "units", I almost cried at that reference to our hard work) yet rigorous, and are a good assessment of the minimum efforts needed to get to net-zero carbon emissions by 2050. Most scenarios strain credulity when you consider the poor alignment of our society today with regard to these issues. However, it's worth noting that basically all plans are reliant on converting transportation to electric where the energy conversion efficiency is so much higher than for carbon. This doesn't mean DCFC taps aren't powered by carbon, just that the entire system is net-zero.
 

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The basic question this and many other similar threads beg is what would you be willing to pay, on top of your direct costs, to guarantee you had a hassle free, minimum transit time trip? Remember Kettleman City? One where the recharge stations had a working charger with your name on it when you arrived, a warm moist towel to freshen up after that grueling 65 kWh run at 45 mph to save electrons, a waiting dining table for you and your crew, or possibly an appointment for a quick mani/pedi/massage while you charge, and then send you on the way with a clean windshield, a warm chocolate chip cookie and an a fresh cup of coffee/soda/water? Is an additional $50 per trip to access this level or service worth it? Maybe $75? A monthly $15 subscription? I don't know if I'd do it, but I'd seriously consider it.
 

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They made their charging strategy a major priority and have been since the beginning. It's paying dividends. Their charging station efforts well precede the pandemic so they were in a much better place to have stockpiles of components and be providing them to the utilities as needed.

I also have no doubt that they have been scouting out ideal locations for sites relative to ease of electrification for a very long time, and are simply filling in locations between their existing network.

No matter what anyone thinks of Tesla's cars, their charging network is superior to anyone else in every way.

EA came into being as a forced mandate due to VW's 'Dieselgate' scandal and has all signs of being maintained begrudgingly. As such, they're on the 'spot market' for components and it shows.
In additional to scouting new locations on their own (and they are actively and aggressively continuing to expand the network), they have a website where people can request a location for new supercharger installation. Tesla owners can vote on locations to help prioritize them. Pretty nifty, I think.


The basic question this and many other similar threads beg is what would you be willing to pay, on top of your direct costs, to guarantee you had a hassle free, minimum transit time trip? Remember Kettleman City? One where the recharge stations had a working charger with your name on it when you arrived, a warm moist towel to freshen up after that grueling 65 kWh run at 45 mph to save electrons, a waiting dining table for you and your crew, or possibly an appointment for a quick mani/pedi/massage while you charge, and then send you on the way with a clean windshield, a warm chocolate chip cookie and an a fresh cup of coffee/soda/water? Is an additional $50 per trip to access this level or service worth it? Maybe $75? A monthly $15 subscription? I don't know if I'd do it, but I'd seriously consider it.
Love Kettleman City and I try to stop there to charge when I'm driving on an I-5 trip. TONS of chargers, a barista on-site, comfy chairs and TV, clean restrooms...
 

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Here's a map of EA chargers in the same area. Does this mean EA is awful? No, Tesla has had chargers for over a decade, and THEY have poor coverage.

detroit EA.PNG
To do it justice you should add EVGo chargers. You’ll find the CCS network equivalent to Tesla’s, at least in that area.

btw, EVGo 100 kW chargers are way cheaper to use than EA (in this part of the country) if you have a bit more time to wait.
 

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Went to Joshua Tree from eastern Los Angeles. It’s about 110 miles each way. Going there I decided to stop at the Cabazon Electrify America station because I didn’t want to stop at the station at night on the way back home.

Got to the station. Completely full. There is an EV GO station immediately next to the EA station. I park in the EV GO spot, get out in the pouring rain, and spend the next 5 or so minutes plugging and unplugging because the charger just wouldn’t communicate with the Mach-E. Then it finally worked! Yay! But it capped out at 9KW. I charged for a little over 20 minutes and got a whopping 2% charge. Then someone cleared out of one EA spot. In the 20 minutes I charged with EV GO, a few EVs came, waited and then decided to keep moving. In an effort to secure the EA spot I asked my wife to block the spot for our Mach-E. That pissed off a few people waiting.

But that’s not all. I had to plug and unplug the EA connector many times and it would fail every single time. I’m already late to get to my destination and this was really boiling my blood. I eventually call the EA number, they do something and it finally works. About 15 minutes elapsed from the time I parked in the EA spot and the time I got my first charge. Got 15 minutes of charge and then emptied the EA spot as there was a line.


My frustrations with my Mach-E grow day by day. And with each 100+ mile trip I feel my hatred for the vehicle ascend to heights I never felt before. I do concede this isn’t necessarily on the Mach-E. This was on EV Go and Electrify America. However, I passed a Tesla Supercharger with plenty of spots and seamless charging. And last week I went on a trip with a buddy in his Tesla. Never a single issue at any Supercharger. Just put the address in and go. The software figures out what and where and how much you need to charge. And every charger just worked. Why can’t it be like that in the Mach-E?

I’m thinking of calling around to get trade in values for the Mach-E.
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