No more road trips with our Mach-E. A 2 hour drive to Joshua Tree turns into a 3 hour drive.

Jcpro2

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I didn't realize it was that big of a gap. YIKES. So Tesla will install this year what EA will be at in 2 years from now in total.
Tesla will install in 1.5 months what EA is going to have in 2025. It’s ridiculous. EA needs more than just a Boost plan. There must be some magic in how Tesla designs their charging station that makes them scalable so easily and deploy rapidly.

Not to be outdone by EA, here’s plan from Mercedes:

“Following the likes of Tesla and GM, the German automaker shared a plan to develop a 10,000-charger network by 2030, starting with the U.S. and Canada and later expanding into China, Europe and “other key markets”

10k in 7 years? Can’t they all move a little faster?
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astronut325

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Tesla will install in 1.5 months what EA is going to have in 2025. It’s ridiculous. EA needs more than just a Boost plan. There must be some magic in how Tesla designs their charging station that makes them scalable so easily and deploy rapidly.

Not to be outdone by EA, here’s plan from Mercedes:

“Following the likes of Tesla and GM, the German automaker shared a plan to develop a 10,000-charger network by 2030, starting with the U.S. and Canada and later expanding into China, Europe and “other key markets”

10k in 7 years? Can’t they all move a little faster?
That just feels like salt on a wound. 7 years for something Tesla will be doing in ONE year.

Do the big auto makers think this is a problem that the governments need to solve? These efforts/investments are pathetic.
 

Space Ghost GT

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Thank you for this reply.
  • Not set up with plug and charge. That is absolutely my mistake.
  • I did check in the EA app as I was pulling in to the parking lot. It said one spot was available. When I got there it was full.
  • I didn’t think it was worth the risk after already dealing with a broken EV GO charger where we were.
  • When the EA spot opened only one other car was waiting. We were charging on the broken EV GO station. And for some reason, that other car left just as my wife got out of the car. So we didn’t jump the line. It was simply to make sure someone else that comes along doesn’t take spot while I unplug and move the car.
  • I’m on 4.1.2.
  • I do not agree that this isn’t Ford’s fault. I don’t see them contributing anything meaningful towards improving the availability of charging infrastructure. This never would be a point of discussion in a Tesla. This is what the rest of the manufacturers should be striving for. My buddy road tripped from CA to Florida in his Tesla. Not one broken charger in his entire trip and never had to check any apps, or make any help calls. Just set the route and go.
  • This is a good point. I do acknowledge that we were hitting a peak period and that charging on the way home would have potentially been better. However, we passed the Tesla Supercharger when entering the Cabazon outlet. 16 charging stations. EA had 4 and EV Go had 1. The Tesla Supercharger looked like it was at about half capacity.
I do realize that I was hitting peak demand, but it wasn’t an issue for the Tesla Supercharger in the same location. I will set up plug and charge. However, both my wife and I agreed and we won’t be doing anymore 100+ trips in the Mach-E. I did check the apps throughout the journey to monitor availability and it just didn’t pan out. Not connecting when plugged in was a much bigger issue.
Just buy a Tesla on the cheap and be happy already.
 

sotek2345

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Tesla is adding 3-4000 Superchargers EVERY 3 month, as of now it has over 46000 SC world wide. In comparison, here's EA's plan for 2025:

"Dubbed the Boost Plan, it aims for more than 1,800 DC fast-charging stations, and a total of 10,000 individual connectors, by 2025"

This is just sad. Sorry to say the discrepency will only grow much wider, not smaller.
Ok - while I get the discrepancy, this is a little bit apples to oranges. Those Tesla numbers look like they are worldwide, while the EA numbers are US only (maybe US and Canada?). EA is also not the only CCS network.

That said, they do need to deploy faster and be more reliable.
 


Stevey

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The whole things boils down to money. In every Tesla you buy, a portion of that sales prices goes to the SC network (remember, originally charging was included). It was part of their business plan. They understood that no one would by a car they couldn't re-fuel. For over 100 years non-Tesla automakers didn't have to include re-fueling infrastructure as part of the manufacturing expense. There is absolutely no reason for them to start now. The only reason they are building EVs is because people are demanding them. There isn't any altruistic motive. They could care less if we transition to electric. Oh, they will market how they are saving the planet and fighting climate change and give you that feel good feeling, but it is all BS. The only reason Electrify America exists is because VW was legally forced. The fact that not even their own vehicles have Plug and Charge proves their lack of support.

Unfortunately right now non-Tesla companies are struggling to find a business case for DCFC. That is why they are uncovered and in the back of parking lots, anything else would just compound the losses. For this to work we are going to have to see more partnerships like GM, EVgo and Pilot/Flying J that leverage the existing Gas Station infrastructure. GM makes the cars, EVgo provides the equipment/ know how and Pilot/Flying J provides the location. DCFC needs to be treated as a loss leader just like gas. It is there to get the consumer in your store/restaurant where you can generate a profit.

Until the money thing gets figured out, I feel we will be in for some growing pains. So buckle up buttercup
 

BadgerGreg

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Tesla is adding 3-4000 Superchargers EVERY 3 month, as of now it has over 46000 SC world wide. In comparison, here's EA's plan for 2025:

"Dubbed the Boost Plan, it aims for more than 1,800 DC fast-charging stations, and a total of 10,000 individual connectors, by 2025"

This is just sad. Sorry to say the discrepency will only grow much wider, not smaller.
Also, I don't see EA meeting this objective, given the snail's pace of station installation I've seen since they've announced their expansion. I've seen stations listed on their app as "Coming Soon" for over a year. They seem to be putting their resources into repairing existing stations, which is quite obviously more than they have capacity for at the moment.
 

devmach-e

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Also, I don't see EA meeting this objective, given the snail's pace of station installation I've seen since they've announced their expansion. I've seen stations listed on their app as "Coming Soon" for over a year. They seem to be putting their resources into repairing existing stations, which is quite obviously more than they have capacity for at the moment.
Part of the problem with the pace of EA’s installation lies with the structure of the dieselgate settlement that created EA in the first place. They aren’t free to build wherever they want. There’s a plan they have to follow that is subject to oversight by the various states that were part of the settlement. A plan that requires spending X amount of money every 2.5 years, and also revise those plans every 2.5 years.
 

SpaceEVDriver

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Any word on when those 350's are going in? I'd be happy to see a few stalls on the way to Flagstaff from the valley. Plug share etc doesn't show anything from Anthem to the Flagstaff Walmart sadly. I havn't signed up for Ford's charging yet, but havn't planned a trip yet as we got WAY too much snow for me to bother with over the weekend. I saw some 350's in Sedona are listed but I'm not side tracking as much as that.


Which is why I'm on the wait list for the ever so fugly LightYear2. Because. Phoenix. Skip the charging, get the sun burn.
We travel between Flagstaff and downtown PHX about once a month. On the way up, we charge in Anthem and make it to Flagstaff with around 20-30% charge. Going highway speeds.

We were in Tucson just after the holidays and came back up during a snow storm. ABRP didn't seem to think we would make it, so we had a backup plan of stopping in CV or Sedona for the night if necessary. We charged to about 85% at the Anthem chargers and made it to Flagstaff with about 20% charge.

ABRP accounts for weather, but doesn't seem to account for slower speeds during weather...
 

BilLongua

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I'm not sure how it's different in five years if the CCS model is kept in place.

Tesla does charging because their core business depends on it, they had to get it somewhat right.

Ford, GM, etc are in a wait and see what happens stance. Imo, they don't want to touch charging with a ten foot pole. They'd rather have the government spend the money.

In 20 years, why would it look like gas stations? Where and how is the money to be made? How are the charging stations ever going to get out of being in back of parking lots? What a piss poor experience when charging an expensive EV. Why would anyone invest money in a charging network? Billions and billions would have to be spent on infrastructure and whatnot to even get a half ass approach to gas stations.
Well they make a money on the electricity, just like they make money on petroleum today. That’s how they make a profit. Right now you’re paid $.43 a kilowatt hour, which is probably 3 to 4 times what they pay for the electricity.
My point is that the battery technology, the charging technology, the infrastructure technology will all improve dramatically in the next 20 years because that’s what everyone’s going to be driving for the future. Electric vehicles are getting all the development and all of the investment right now.
Tesla had to build an infrastructure, because there was literally nothing out there. And as soon as Tesla starts allowing regular EVs to use their network for profit, it’s going to make the infrastructure even better right now.
The car companies are not involved in the fuel business for their vehicles, so it’s antithetical for them to start now.
 

mkhuffman

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Right now you’re paid $.43 a kilowatt hour, which is probably 3 to 4 times what they pay for the electricity.
I don't believe that is correct. The power companies have different tiers for high power draws, and depending on how many pumps are in use they could be losing money per kW.
 

MWMME

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It sure takes more planning to go on a road trip, but think it’s totally manageable, especially in the summer. However, winter range limitations in the Midwest makes road trips too inconvenient.

On another note, I think Ford is actually contributing to the DCFC solution by requiring Model E dealers to install chargers...a very courageous move.
I agree with everything except for the promise dealer installed DCFC. There’s no way I’m counting on dealers to provide my charge. They are in the car selling business, not the DCFC business.
 

SuperRob

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Here is the magic. 8 days for an entire supercharger site with 12 stalls.

Supercharger site in 8 days
The 'magic' is that they are pre-fab, down to the concrete slab. They are trucked in pretty much complete and dropped in place. Brandon Flasch just put out a video on this.
 

GreaseMonkey

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I agree with everything except for the promise dealer installed DCFC. There’s no way I’m counting on dealers to provide my charge. They are in the car selling business, not the DCFC business.
They will be in that business soon :)
 
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astronut325

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Are there any rules or requirements on where and how the dealer fast chargers going to be placed/used? Can the dealers place all their chargers in their delivery area and not make any available to the public? Or lock them up when they close daily?
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