No Tax Credit for my loaded GTPE?

[Mach1E]

oh? so if i take delivery in Jan, the old tax credit still stands? thought it would take effect imeditiely. hmm

Well they can technically revoke the old 200,000 unit credit, but I think that is highly unlikely.

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[DevSecOps]

Controversial comment incoming ...

While I gladly took the tax credit, because only a moron wouldn't, I don't support Government handouts/credits/rebates on a purchase of a new car. We've seen with Tesla that it's not preventing people from purchasing. In my opinion they should just remove the tax credit all together and use the money on improving EV charging and roadways if they really want to do something useful.

And I am in 100% support of Glen's characterization of the "douchbags" in charge.

 

[Scooby24]

Controversial comment incoming ...

While I gladly took the tax credit, because only a moron wouldn't, I don't support Government handouts/credits/rebates on a purchase of a new car. We've seen with Tesla that it's not preventing people from purchasing. In my opinion they should just remove the tax credit all together and use the money on improving EV charging and roadways if they really want to do something useful.

And I am in 100% support of Glen's characterization of the "douchbags" in charge.

I see the credit as less of a benefit to a buyer in terms of adoption, but rather in terms of a manufacturer being able to subsidize their initial investment in R&D to break into the market.

It's got to be heard to create a competitive BEV when others have gotten head starts. The initial offerings are going to be more expensive right out of the gate than competitors because they are starting with new contracts, figuring out the technology etc.

That initial credit helps keep their vehicles seen as competitively prices even if their technology is somewhat inferior.

That's certainly how I viewed it. I could afford without the credit, Absolutely. But the credit made me more interested in the MME-GT as a result of the offset price in comparison to the MYLR.

This gives Ford a chance to sell their initial offerings, get a feel for the demand and more inclined to gamble with that R&D.

 

[DevSecOps]

That initial credit helps keep their vehicles seen as competitively prices even if their technology is somewhat inferior.

This topic just gets highly polarized and political. We all have different views regarding subsidies for corporations and individuals. I respect other's opinions and I think I would probably be in the minority of people when it comes to an "EV Forum" so I tread lightly.

Putting all the subsidy issues aside the largest reason for non-adoption of EV's is range and availability of charging. I don't think "cost of purchase" is on that list and while I can see where you are coming from on the corp subsidies, I don't know that Ford "needs" that. If people viewed EV's as comparable to ICE vehicles in range and "re-charging/fueling" I think they would sell on their own and subsidies wouldn't be required at all. A lot of people purchased a Ford EV because they have some brand loyalty, are anti-tesla or just wanted a car that they felt was built better. Technologically yes, Tesla is further along and probably will be for decades. I've seen a lot of people with "Occupation: Retired" here and my guess would be that Technology was towards the bottom of their wish list.

 

[Scooby24]

This topic just gets highly polarized and political. We all have different views regarding subsidies for corporations and individuals. I respect other's opinions and I think I would probably be in the minority of people when it comes to an "EV Forum" so I tread lightly.

Putting all the subsidy issues aside the largest reason for non-adoption of EV's is range and availability of charging. I don't think "cost of purchase" is on that list and while I can see where you are coming from on the corp subsidies, I don't know that Ford "needs" that. If people viewed EV's as comparable to ICE vehicles in range and "re-charging/fueling" I think they would sell on their own and subsidies wouldn't be required at all. A lot of people purchased a Ford EV because they have some brand loyalty, are anti-tesla or just wanted a car that they felt was built better. Technologically yes, Tesla is further along and probably will be for decades. I've seen a lot of people with "Occupation: Retired" here and my guess would be that Technology was towards the bottom of their wish list.

At the end of the day, none of us really know what the true impact is because we are all coming in from different positions interested in different aspects, so all we can do is speculate...and I appreciate that we can discuss it without claiming to know one way or the other to be factually correct in our hunches.

I do agree with your points and also noticed the trend of older generations than myself being interested in the Mach-E. I think you and I are the same age (39) and I feel like the outlier, for sure.

From where I came from though, I already had 240v, have no road trip needs so range and charging access is less of a priority.

I was more interested in being able to have that fun factor and I saw the GT as being equivalently priced after tax credit to the MYLR. Without that credit it would have had to go toe to toe with the MYP which would have been a harder sell for me, personally.

In that respect, Ford got me as a customer. I'm assuming in a couple of years they will have some of this down better and while they may not overcome that technological gap to Tesla, at least they were able to get their foot in the door and hopefully reduce that gap with time.

 

[kennethjk]

This topic just gets highly polarized and political. We all have different views regarding subsidies for corporations and individuals. I respect other's opinions and I think I would probably be in the minority of people when it comes to an "EV Forum" so I tread lightly.

Putting all the subsidy issues aside the largest reason for non-adoption of EV's is range and availability of charging. I don't think "cost of purchase" is on that list and while I can see where you are coming from on the corp subsidies, I don't know that Ford "needs" that. If people viewed EV's as comparable to ICE vehicles in range and "re-charging/fueling" I think they would sell on their own and subsidies wouldn't be required at all. A lot of people purchased a Ford EV because they have some brand loyalty, are anti-tesla or just wanted a car that they felt was built better. Technologically yes, Tesla is further along and probably will be for decades. I've seen a lot of people with "Occupation: Retired" here and my guess would be that Technology was towards the bottom of their wish list.

As an “old” retired guy, technology is pretty high on my agenda, does it have to be as high as Tesla, no, not really, but I do expect it to work.

I just don’t love the look of the Tesla, all of them are basically the same look, especially from the front. I like different. Right now MME is Different.

my hesitation , meaning will I pull the trigger when my car is built will depend on some faith and the people on this thread that the tech stuff will work and I won’t have to keep bringing the car in to be Fixed

I also have a deposit on the BMW IX 5.0. Haven’t driven it or seen it live yet.
leaning to MME at the moment.

 

[ARK]

Controversial comment incoming ...

While I gladly took the tax credit, because only a moron wouldn't, I don't support Government handouts/credits/rebates on a purchase of a new car. We've seen with Tesla that it's not preventing people from purchasing. In my opinion they should just remove the tax credit all together and use the money on improving EV charging and roadways if they really want to do something useful.

And I am in 100% support of Glen's characterization of the "douchbags" in charge.

I agree completely.

A big part of this though is about the government using public money wisely, which they are failing at.

To take some of the political aspect out of this, let’s say we are committed to spending public money. I don’t see how it is a wise use of government money to subsidize manufacturers like Tesla where there is already an incredible waiting period for their vehicles. If people one day stop buying their vehicles fine, reconsider it then, but right now, how is it a good use of public money to subsidize such in demand vehicles.

Wouldn’t it be better spent on things like charging infrastructure? I don’t mean to pick on Tesla, if the government is going to give them money, wouldn’t it better spent by giving it to them to build a public charging network as opposed to helping the buyer say ‘gee, looks like I can afford the performance variant now thanks to this tax credit’.

 

[DevSecOps]

@kennethjk i completely agree with the ugly comment. I've said before that I think the 3 and Y look like an egg with a huge forehead.

And please don't take offense to the retired comment. It's not about age, rather my experiences with my parents, grandparents etc. which obviously don't apply to everyone. But I know for a fact my grandmother would be completely lost in a Tesla.

But you make a great point that each of us have our reasons for going with the MME and your points don't include subsidies.

 

[Dancefreak]

Well they can technically revoke the old 200,000 unit credit, but I think that is highly unlikely.

This bill replaces the current credit system on 1/1/2022. You will have to qualify under new rules after that date.

 

[SeattleMachE]

Honestly, if the sole focus was the environment, the government spending and bill would be allocated to building out public transportation/mass transit, followed by steeper gas tax

 

[Psalm139]

I agree completely.

A big part of this though is about the government using public money wisely, which they are failing at.

To take some of the political aspect out of this, let’s say we are committed to spending public money. I don’t see how it is a wise use of government money to subsidize manufacturers like Tesla where there is already an incredible waiting period for their vehicles. If people one day stop buying their vehicles fine, reconsider it then, but right now, how is it a good use of public money to subsidize such in demand vehicles.

Wouldn’t it be better spent on things like charging infrastructure? I don’t mean to pick on Tesla, if the government is going to give them money, wouldn’t it better spent by giving it to them to build a public charging network as opposed to helping the buyer say ‘gee, looks like I can afford the performance variant now thanks to this tax credit’.

There isn't always a long wait for their vehicles. When they release something new there is and right now there is, but not always.
Last summer I was in the market for a Tesla and they called me several times to get me to test drive one and followed up with why I didn't buy one. They had plenty of inventory and will again in the future.
This purchase incentive is not a short term initiative, but something in the long run.
Also, they are incentivizing charging infrastructure, but the government wouldn't build it. They will only convince private companies to do so which is difficult.

 

[bostondan77]

Controversial comment incoming ...

While I gladly took the tax credit, because only a moron wouldn't, I don't support Government handouts/credits/rebates on a purchase of a new car. We've seen with Tesla that it's not preventing people from purchasing. In my opinion they should just remove the tax credit all together and use the money on improving EV charging and roadways if they really want to do something useful.

And I am in 100% support of Glen's characterization of the "douchbags" in charge.

Tesla absolutely used the credits when they starting up, they don’t have the credits anymore because they ran out. They may not be where they are now without that initial government investment.

 

[kennethjk]

@kennethjk i completely agree with the ugly comment. I've said before that I think the 3 and Y look like an egg with a huge forehead.

And please don't take offense to the retired comment. It's not about age, rather my experiences with my parents, grandparents etc. which obviously don't apply to everyone. But I know for a fact my grandmother would be completely lost in a Tesla.

But you make a great point that each of us have our reasons for going with the MME and your points don't include subsidies.

no offense taken, all good. Will be 70 next year and I love technology.

I do like cool and I think most EV’s are cool. I love to drive and enjoying a car makes life a touch better. I have had, Pontiacs GTO and Firebird, all sorts of BMW’s, currently own a Macan and a 911s. terrible waste of money but I have loved cars for the last 60 years. Some people buy cars based solely on price and don’t care what brand or model and use a car to get from point A to B.

I used to drive 30k miles a year.

I pick a car I like and then try to get best price from a dealer. To each their own. If I didn’t like cars so much I probably could have retired years earlier, LoL.

 

[kennethjk]

This bill replaces the current credit system on 1/1/2022. You will have to qualify under new rules after that date.

Not sure that is the case, although I haven’t personally read the proposal and will only do so when it gets to conference, I found this on Bloomberg

“The $7,500 credit would apply to all vehicles regardless of where the vehicle is made for the first five years after the bill is enacted, according to the House draft. But in the second five years it will apply only to ones made in the U.S. An additional $500 will be available for any car if the battery is made in the U.S. and $4,500 if the carmarker employs a workforce represented by a union. “

 

[s7davis]

I don't know the answer to your question, but a question of my own: Why do lawmakers feel they need to put a price limit on a car when it comes to a tax credit? I just don't get it. Isn't the incentive to get you to buy an EV rather than an ICE car? Who cares how much it costs.

It is to get people to get into an EV. However, their is a price limit because if you can afford to get the high end stuff you really do not need the credit as your income is probably well above other people.

another way of looking at it is if you have a tax liability of $7500 or more then you are not struggling financially and probably do not really need it. HOwever, before i get slammed on here I only make between 40 - 50 a year so I know I do not have the tax liability to get the full amount so I do not bother trying to get the vehicle now. And I do not make enough to even try to get the vehicle at this time. However, the tax credit was really meant for the average person with the mid range salary to help them out as people know we would not be able to afford these cars any other way so it is great.

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