No Tax Credit for my loaded GTPE?

[generaltso]

The Mexico plant is unionized, but not UAW. Would qualify for the $4500 unless it must be an American Union.

I believe it has to be an American union. Members of unions in other countries can’t vote in American elections.

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[Mach1E]

I believe it has to be an American union. Members of unions in other countries can’t vote in American elections.

I hope they use generic language like “American” in the law. That way we can fight for the credit since Mexico is in North America. ?

 

[Rudy Bega]

I would think accessories aren’t considered part of the “car cost”. That would also eliminate paperwork charges, registration fees. Also, is sales tax included? x-plan a possibility?

It’s based on MSRP, that includes Destination & Delivery, and Options currently. Look at your offer sheet to see that number. ?

 

[timbop]

@Mach1E mentioned straw man arguments leading to an absurd conclusion, which was a nice attempt at reflection. The assertion that "because I can't get a GTPE I cannot buy ANY BEV" is in fact the straw man argument leading to an absurd conclusion. You absolutely DO have choices, and can certainly find an acceptable BEV that qualifies for the rebate. I know because I went with a Route 1 instead of premium because that is what qualified for the NJ rebate at the time I ordered. It has in no way diminished my life.

Sometimes doing the right thing is hard and painful, and sometimes it means giving up something as small as the magneride suspension to which you have become accustomed.

 

[Rudy Bega]

In California, the price limit cutoff of $60,000 applies to the msrp of the car, BEFORE options are added. That's why Ford dropped the price on the GT from $61,200 to $59,900. And the GTPE is an options package, not a new Model. Since the $60k limit is before options are added, I got the full rebate from California for my GTPE.

Very nice! Love it!!!

 

[ARK]

I can only speak about what I will do. I ordered a GT-PE in July.

We need a third car now that my daughter is driving. My wife ad I have owned ONLY Acuras and Hondas for 25 years. We buy reliable cars that handle well. I keep cars for a long time. If this is a 10 year keeper, I wanted it to be an EV. Honda/Acura doesn't have an EV for me so I looked elsewhere. The reliability sucks on all of them (compared to what I am used to with Acura ICE). That made me revert to looking at Acura ICE cars. Apparently, Acura quality/reliability has also tanked in the last 10 years, leaving me in a pickle.

I would ordinarily never spend this much money on a car. I am barely able to justify the ~$62K that the GT-PE will cost after receiving the $7500 credit. I have hated Ford my whole life after having a very very bad experience my first car (Ford Tempo). I told myself I would never buy another Ford (or American car for that matter). My Acura TL SHAWD (with active dampers) drives great and I have had zero problems with it. It is also reasonably quick for its vintage. Believe it or not, you can fairly easily get the back end to walk out. I don't like SUV's because they don't handle like good sedans (my wife's MDX SHAWD has a good rep for handling but I think it sucks). The GT-PE apparently DOES handle like a sports sedan (minus being a little ... ahem... portly) so I was willing to give it a chance. After doing some research, I was excited enough about the GT-PE to give FORD a chance.

If I can't somehow get this credit:

- I will not buy an EV (there is no acceptable alternative for me)
- I will buy an ICE
- I will not buy a Ford (and probably never will because Acura/Honda will have something great by the time that I am ready for a replacement)

Though the decision is really simple for me, I will be deeply disappointed and super pissed at our lawmakers. I have to think that I am not alone on at least some of these points.

It would be nice if Congress somehow accounted for people who already ordered their vehicles before changing the rules out from under them, but unfortunately, I am not too optimistic that Congress will do that if they enact their proposed reform as is.

 

[ARK]

I will try to stay politically neutral but there is a growing appetite in this country to tax the rich and a tax credit on an expensive car seems like an incentive for the wealthy to some. To me, that shows people don't understand that the tax credits aren't for consumers they are actually an incentive for the manufactures to be more profitable on emerging technology. Most EV's get no rebates from the manufacture and people pay sticker = the manufacture has a higher profit margin.

Exactly, it’s sort of an illusion that the buyer gets the full tax credit. In reality, most or all of it goes to the manufacturer because they simply adjust their pricing, just like how Tesla implemented price cuts across the board when they lost their tax credit, and just like how they have enacted a series of price increases all through this year partly in anticipation of the tax credit.

So if you acknowledge that most of the EV credit is captured by the manufacturer, even if it doesn’t feel that way at first glance (because the buyer, after all, is literally the person claiming it on their taxes, not the manufacturer), you gotta ask if this is the best use of public money to spur the adoption of EVs. Does Tesla need government subsidies at this point for their product? They seem to be past it and could make a killing right now selling some of their own stock.

 

[Mach1E]

@Mach1E mentioned straw man arguments leading to an absurd conclusion, which was a nice attempt at reflection. The assertion that "because I can't get a GTPE I cannot buy ANY BEV" is in fact the straw man argument leading to an absurd conclusion. You absolutely DO have choices, and can certainly find an acceptable BEV that qualifies for the rebate. I know because I went with a Route 1 instead of premium because that is what qualified for the NJ rebate at the time I ordered. It has in no way diminished my life.

Sometimes doing the right thing is hard and painful, and sometimes it means giving up something as small as the magneride suspension to which you have become accustomed.

You’re doing the straw man argument thing again.

You are putting words in my mouth then arguing against that made up argument.

If doing the “right thing even if it’s hard and painful” was enough, we wouldn’t need any incentives at all.

But again, the whole point of incentives is to incentivize people to “do the right thing” as you put it who normally wouldn’t do so.

 

[jimitoast]

Sometimes doing the right thing is hard and painful, and sometimes it means giving up something as small as the magneride suspension to which you have become accustomed.

Here's another way to look at it. For some people, buying a car is like buying a toaster. For me, it is very personal. I need to enjoy the car. I don't think that is unreasonable. While the environment is important to me, I can't justify what amounts to a $50K donation to save the planet on a vehicle that I won't enjoy. I can't afford the EV's that I would enjoy without an incentive. If you think that makes me a bad person, I can't say I'll lose sleep over that. I am very comfortable with my moral compass. At least I am considering taking the risks associated with owning an EV - most other humans are not.

 

[jimitoast]

It would be nice if Congress somehow accounted for people who already ordered their vehicles before changing the rules out from under them,

Thanks for mentioning this. I think this is the primary driver for me being angry about the debate in Congress. I feel like they are pulling the rug out from under me. While I had initial hopes that my GT-PE would be delivered this year, that is clearly not happening at this point and the prospect that I may have wasted time waiting while dealing with the headaches of sharing a car with my daughter aggrivates me.

 

[malthusunc]

I have a GT PE on order (no production date yet). Obviously will take delivery in 2022. I know it hasn't passed but the potential seems to be growing stronger that it will with the $69K cap. I am sitting at Total MSRP of $70,530.

So remove the Pano roof (which I love) and take out the mats (which I can buy later) to get below $69K MSRP in the chance this passes as advertised? I would need to do that before I have been given a production date because at that point it is locked in, correct?

The only other option (aside from not getting the tax credit) is to keep it as planned and wait to see what happens. If it ends up being $69K, don't take delivery and restart the process?

Any thoughts?

 

[Whatstreet]

The verbiage used here is so vague. Also, why put price caps on form factors? If this is a luxury purchase penalty, it should be the same maximum amount for any car purchase. If it's a wealth issue, income would be a better metric.

The whole union thing is going after Tesla, they probably didn't even think about the Mache being a car built by a US manufacturer in Mexico that may not have nay union at all.

Maybe the Mexico employees will have to join the UAW so the Mache can be more price competitive in the US market.

They need to rewrite that bill.

 

[Mach1E]

The verbiage used here is so vague. Also, why put price caps on form factors? If this is a luxury purchase penalty, it should be the same maximum amount for any car purchase. If it's a wealth issue, income would be a better metric.

The whole union thing is going after Tesla, they probably didn't even think about the Mache being a car built by a US manufacturer in Mexico that may not have nay union at all.

Maybe the Mexico employees will have to join the UAW so the Mache can be more price competitive in the US market.

They need to rewrite that bill.

Well the Mach E technically has two strikes against it. It’s not built in the US and then the union thing.

Months ago when this whole bill thing started the discussion seemed to say it wouldn’t take away the 200,000 $7500 tax credits that were created years ago. Have you read something new that suggests otherwise?

 

[amtrucker22]

I have a GT PE on order (no production date yet). Obviously will take delivery in 2022. I know it hasn't passed but the potential seems to be growing stronger that it will with the $69K cap. I am sitting at Total MSRP of $70,530.

So remove the Pano roof (which I love) and take out the mats (which I can buy later) to get below $69K MSRP in the chance this passes as advertised? I would need to do that before I have been given a production date because at that point it is locked in, correct?

The only other option (aside from not getting the tax credit) is to keep it as planned and wait to see what happens. If it ends up being $69K, don't take delivery and restart the process?

Any thoughts?

The thing that sucks is if you remove the pano, co-pilot comes off also on the GT performance. They are a package deal.

 

[DYohn]

oh? so if i take delivery in Jan, the old tax credit still stands? thought it would take effect imeditiely. hmm

No changes to the rules have happened yet so don’t worry about it.

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