Now an Electric Escape in the Wings

[MerryBrown]

I know this was mentioned in one of the other threads.
I can't find it so I thought I would put this here:
https://fordauthority.com/2020/09/ford-escape-phev-production-dates-revealed/
I am a little bit startled by the fact that they are promising those so soon, when we don't know if they have enough batteries for the Mach E orders they have now.
Am I reading this correctly?

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[macchiaz-o]

I don't think there's much to relate between the two cars and their production status.

Escape's pack is much smaller, capable of storing about 14-19% of the energy in a Mach-E battery. Its cells might be of a different type and sourced from a different supplier. The vehicle itself is on a different platform, engineered by a different team with their own requirements and timeline, and the Escape will be produced at a different factory than the Mustang Mach-E.

 

[timbop]

I know this was mentioned in one of the other threads.
I can't find it so I thought I would put this here:
https://fordauthority.com/2020/09/ford-escape-phev-production-dates-revealed/
I am a little bit startled by the fact that they are promising those so soon, when we don't know if they have enough batteries for the Mach E orders they have now.
Am I reading this correctly?

The escape PHEV is actually behind schedule - it was slated to hit dealers this spring/summer as a 2020 MY, but covid blew that plan away. It's been on Ford's website all year (I know because I was trying to talk the Mrs into one).

 

[SnBGC]

The escape PHEV is actually behind schedule - it was slated to hit dealers this spring/summer as a 2020 MY, but covid blew that plan away. It's been on Ford's website all year (I know because I was trying to talk the Mrs into one).

When word gets out those things qualify for up to $6500 Federal Tax rebate then I think they will sell fairly quick. I wonder how many PHEVs Ford thinks they are going to sell in 2021?

I have said it before and I still believe that the MME is really a halo EV for Ford. They want to bring interested buyers into the showrooms to look into going electric. Existing EV owners won't have any range anxiety to speak of but new EVers are still going to struggle about making the switch. At that point the sales person can say...."Well, we have this Escape PHEV sitting here that has the best of both worlds......and it qualifies for a $6500 potential rebate.". Done. Sold and out the door. MME sits there for the next new EVer to wander in and it plays out over and over again.

 

[Jolteon]

I know this was mentioned in one of the other threads.
I can't find it so I thought I would put this here:
https://fordauthority.com/2020/09/ford-escape-phev-production-dates-revealed/
I am a little bit startled by the fact that they are promising those so soon, when we don't know if they have enough batteries for the Mach E orders they have now.
Am I reading this correctly?

FHEVs & PHEVs generally haven't used the same pouch cells that BEVs use, so likely the cells are from an altogether different supplier. The Explorer's batteries are from VEJ, for example, who make prismatic cells.

 

[Jolteon]

When word gets out those things qualify for up to $6500 Federal Tax rebate then I think they will sell fairly quick. I wonder how many PHEVs Ford thinks they are going to sell in 2021?

I have said it before and I still believe that the MME is really a halo EV for Ford. They want to bring interested buyers into the showrooms to look into going electric. Existing EV owners won't have any range anxiety to speak of but new EVers are still going to struggle about making the switch. At that point the sales person can say...."Well, we have this Escape PHEV sitting here that has the best of both worlds......and it qualifies for a $6500 potential rebate.". Done. Sold and out the door. MME sits there for the next new EVer to wander in and it plays out over and over again.

The tax credit has been around for a decade now - who doesn't know about it?

I mean PHEVs are hardly "the best of both worlds" - in fact the worst of both worlds, but that's a topic for a different discussion.

 

[Jolteon]

The escape PHEV is actually behind schedule - it was slated to hit dealers this spring/summer as a 2020 MY, but covid blew that plan away. It's been on Ford's website all year (I know because I was trying to talk the Mrs into one).

The Kuga PHEV (same car) is recalled in Europe for battery fires while charging. Would not surprise me if all the batteries went to fixing already-sold Kugas and delayed the US launch.

 

[SnBGC]

The tax credit has been around for a decade now - who doesn't know about it?

I mean PHEVs are hardly "the best of both worlds" - in fact the worst of both worlds, but that's a topic for a different discussion.

About 90% of the population isnt aware. Those that do, think the largest tax credit only applies to BEV.
In reality it is due to battery size and having a plug. The Escape battery is so large that it qualifies for a very large amount compared to something like a C-Max Energi

 

[SnBGC]

The Kuga PHEV (same car) is recalled in Europe for battery fires while charging. Would not surprise me if all the batteries went to fixing already-sold Kugas and delayed the US launch.

I could be wrong but I thought the hazard issue was related to a wiring connector? Not sure though....???

I think Ford delayed the Escape to follow the initial MME deliveries. I didn't even read the article that was posted at the start of this thread......I guess I better see what it says in there before I jump to any more conclusions.

 

[trutolife27]

There are a lot of different options coming to the escape platform in the next few years.
Nice plant also. Made here where I work also.

 

[SnBGC]

There are a lot of different options coming to the escape platform in the next few years.
Nice plant also. Made here where I work also.

I read an article about 2 months ago where some industry people were suspecting the Escape PHEV could outsell the MME. Do you have a feel for how many battery packs have been secured by Ford for the Escape PHEV for the 2021 model year?

I think the PHEV will play a pretty big part of BEV adoption. Many more people may take the ICE-PHEV-BEV path vs ICE-BEV. It might be in factors as well.....like maybe 10 or 20 times more people.

That is what happened to me. C-Max Energi was a great introduction to EVs. Driving that thing in EV mode is exciting. It made us want a full BEV and as soon as a suitable candidate was available I jumped on it. Now looking forward to the MME and my kids are looking forward to the hand-me-downs.

 

[Jolteon]

I read an article about 2 months ago where some industry people were suspecting the Escape PHEV could outsell the MME. Do you have a feel for how many battery packs have been secured by Ford for the Escape PHEV for the 2021 model year?

I think the PHEV will play a pretty big part of BEV adoption. Many more people may take the ICE-PHEV-BEV path vs ICE-BEV. It might be in factors as well.....like maybe 10 or 20 times more people.

That is what happened to me. C-Max Energi was a great introduction to EVs. Driving that thing in EV mode is exciting. It made us want a full BEV and as soon as a suitable candidate was available I jumped on it. Now looking forward to the MME and my kids are looking forward to the hand-me-downs.

I don't think we will ever see the Escape PHEV outsell the Mach-E.

PHEVs' time has come and gone. There's no economic justification for them anymore - as soon as Ford runs out of tax credits you'll see all PHEVs pulled, just like GM did. They only make sense with government subsidy. Tesla is proving BEVs have a future without the tax credit, GM proved PHEVs don't.

 

[SnBGC]

I don't think we will ever see the Escape PHEV outsell the Mach-E.

PHEVs' time has come and gone. There's no economic justification for them anymore - as soon as Ford runs out of tax credits you'll see all PHEVs pulled, just like GM did. They only make sense with government subsidy. Tesla is proving BEVs have a future without the tax credit, GM proved PHEVs don't.

Then why does Ford and GM have so many different models in development?

 

[timbop]

I don't think we will ever see the Escape PHEV outsell the Mach-E.

PHEVs' time has come and gone. There's no economic justification for them anymore - as soon as Ford runs out of tax credits you'll see all PHEVs pulled, just like GM did. They only make sense with government subsidy. Tesla is proving BEVs have a future without the tax credit, GM proved PHEVs don't.

You're coming from a different perspective than 97% of the car buying public. You've already transitioned to BEV, so you see no value in a PHEV. I can assure you that there are many who would like to have the security of that gas engine for longer drives, and will be happy just to drive electric on their short commute and around town. There are even some on this forum, including me: while I am getting the MME for myself, I am pushing the wife to a PHEV just for that security blanket of the gas engine for long drives. I would like to be comfortable enough to use the MME for long drives, but I am going to have to work up to it.

 

[Jolteon]

Then why does Ford and GM have so many different models in development?

GM has committed to their investors that they do not have PHEVs in their future strategy.

What PHEVs are they developing?

Any PHEV brought to market is development dollars wasted, IMO. I hope Ford has no more in the pipeline.

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