Oil Pump Failure / Service Vehicle Soon - Facts and Info (P0C2A/P2796/P2797)

[DevSecOps]

Preface:

This thread is in regards to DTC P0C2A, P2796, or P2797, which is an oil pump stall. There's been a few reported instances on this forum, Facebook, and Reddit that I've seen. Additionally, I had this failure happen to me, 150mi from home on March 15th, 2023. It appears to be an emerging issue and one that people should be aware of.

What is P0C2A P2796 P2797?

This fault is when the oil pump in the transmission/motor fails, or stalls.

Can I have failure without an IPC warning?

Unfortunately, as of January 2024, Ford has decided to remove the SVS notification for some failures of the oil pump. The code is still thrown, however the vehicle shows no sign of failure on the IPC. The only other way to know if failure is present is through speed. If the code is present the vehicle will be limited to 87mph.

We have an oil pump?

Yes, we do! The oil pump, pumps oil through the motor and transmission step down gears in order to keep them lubricated and cool. Some vehicles such as Rivian, elected to go with a splash oil system where there's no pump and the oil just sloshes around inside of the transmission case. Others, such as Ford and Tesla decided to pressurize that system and push oil through the transmission.

- Side question - We have a transmission?

Yes, but not in the traditional sense of a transmission. The transmission of an electric motor is actually part of the motor assembly. It connects to the side of the motor and is only a couple inches thick on some vehicles and a bit larger on the MME. The step down gears connect to the stator within the electric motor and half shafts to convert the very high RMPs in the motor to the desired RPMs at the wheels.

What happens if we keep driving?

Driving with a failed or stalled oil pump can cause the gears to get damaged or cause overheating in the transmission/motor and could result in a complete replacement of the motor assembly.

How do I know the difference between this and HVBJB failure?

You don't - unless you pull the codes. The HVBJB failure can present itself in the same way as the oil pump failure in the instrument cluster.

How is it fixed?

The entire motor assembly has to be dropped and disassembled. The oil should be checked for metal flaking which could indicate damage to the gears. If no damage is present, the pump (LJ9Z-7P086-A - which ironically can be purchased at Walmart) will be replaced along with the possibility of inner bearings (LJ9Z-7118-D), nuts, bolts, and retainers. They will refill the system with transmission oil. In the cases I've seen where damage has occurred the entire motor assembly was replaced.

How long does it take?

It appears that this repair takes about 2-4 weeks depending on parts.

Failure of the pump aside, do I ever have to replace this oil?

Yes, per the manual you have to replaced the oil in each motor/transmission at 10 years or 150k miles.

What should I do if this happens to me?

I would recommend that you stop driving the vehicle and only drive it in emergencies or to the repair dealership. Immediately call Ford and open a case. If you are stranded call Roadside assistance. The numbers are below:

Ford Roadside (to get towed):

(800) 241-3673

Ford customer support (to get a case started)(only open M-F):

(800) 392-3673 - USA
(800) 565-3673 - Canada

Video explaining the oil system:

 

[macchiaz-o]

Bummer...

I do wonder what the engine shampoo smells like. Desert sun? Lavender and honey? Midsummer night?

 

[Mrn]

Will there be noticeable oil stains under the car when this happens?

 

[DevSecOps]

Will there be noticeable oil stains under the car when this happens?

No, it's simply a failure of the pump, to pump. You'll get alerted on the instrument cluster and in the Fordpass app of a Powertrain Mailfunction / Service Vehicle Soon.

 

[scoopman]

Preface:

This thread is in regards to DTC P0C2A, which is an oil pump stall. There's been a few reported instances on this forum, Facebook, and Reddit that I've seen. Additionally, I had this failure happen to me, 150mi from home on March 15th, 2023. It appears to be an emerging issue and one that people should be aware of.

What is P0C2A?

This fault is when the oil pump in the transmission of the motor fails, or stalls.

We have an oil pump?

Yes, we do! The oil pump, pumps oil through the transmission step down gears in order to keep them lubricated and cool. Some vehicles such as Rivian, elected to go with a splash oil system where there's no pump and the oil just sloshes around inside of the transmission case. Others, such as Ford and Tesla decided to pressurize that system and push oil through the transmission.

- Side question - We have a transmission?

Yes, but not in the traditional sense of a transmission. The transmission of an electric motor is actually part of the motor assembly. It connects to the side of the motor and is only a couple inches thick. The step down gears connect to the stator within the electric motor and half shafts to convert the very high RMPs in the motor to the desired RPMs at the wheels.

What happens if we keep driving?

Driving with a failed or stalled oil pump can cause the gears to get damaged and could result in a complete replacement of the motor assembly.

How do I know the difference between this and HVBJB failure?

You don't - unless you pull the codes. The HVBJB failure can present itself in the same way as the oil pump failure in the instrument cluster.

How is it fixed?

The entire motor assembly has to be dropped and disassembled. The oil should be checked for metal flaking which could indicate damage to the gears. If no damage is present, the pump (LJ9Z-7P086-A - which ironically can be purchased at Walmart) will be replaced along with the possibility of inner bearings (LJ9Z-7118-D), nuts, bolts, and retainers. They will refill the system with transmission oil. In the cases I've seen where damage has occurred the entire motor assembly was replaced.

How long does it take?

It appears that this repair takes about 2-4 weeks depending on parts.

What should I do if this happens to me?

I would recommend that you stop driving the vehicle and only drive it in emergencies or to the repair dealership. Immediately call Ford and open a case. If you are stranded call Roadside assistance. The numbers are below:

Ford Roadside (to get towed):

(800) 241-3673

Ford customer support (to get a case started)(only open M-F):

(800) 392-3673 - USA
(800) 565-3673 - Canada

So if this DTC is thrown, it sounds like you are saying that the driver will get a SVS in the instrument cluster and the message you screenshotted in FordPass, but no other indication that it's the pump and not something else.

Are there any symptoms in drivability or noises if this goes?

More reasons to always have an OBD-II reader with you with this car....

 

[DevSecOps]

So if this DTC is thrown, it sounds like you are saying that the driver will get a SVS in the instrument cluster and the message you screenshotted in FordPass, but no other indication that it's the pump and not something else.

Are there any symptoms in drivability or noises if this goes?

More reasons to always have an OBD-II reader with you with this car....

Nope, there's no other indicators. The only way to know is by using a scanner.

 

[bshaw]

Thank you for the detailed post.
I would suggest you add the recommended service interval for the pump and oil. I read somewhere that it is rated for 150k miles?
Do you know if your replacement is covered under the included 5 yr power train warranty or the 8 yr electric component warranty?
Model year 2021 has 8yr / 100k miles warranty on EV components, but I think newer models only have 8yr / 80k warranty.
Since it is part of the motor assembly, I would expect it is an EV component, but based on the DTC, it sounds like power train. Would be good to know for anyone purchasing used or planning to keep their vehicle for the long term.

 

[Shayne]

No, it's simply a failure of the pump, to pump. You'll get alerted on the instrument cluster and in the Fordpass app of a Powertrain Mailfunction / Service Vehicle Soon.

So no SSN? SVS would imply you can keep driving it which does not sound like a good idea to run it with no lubrication.

Thank you for the detailed post.
I would suggest you add the recommended service interval for the pump and oil. I read somewhere that it is rated for 150k miles?
Do you know if your replacement is covered under the included 5 yr power train warranty or the 8 yr electric component warranty?
Model year 2021 has 8yr / 100k miles warranty on EV components, but I think newer models only have 8yr / 80k warranty.
Since it is part of the motor assembly, I would expect it is an EV component, but based on the DTC, it sounds like power train. Would be good to know for anyone purchasing used or planning to keep their vehicle for the long term.

The high voltage battery and eDrive systems are covered for the 8 years. They never define what the eDrive is but the transmission is part of the electric motor and is all one housing. You would think it is part of the eDrive system but who knows? If it is than what is the power train a shaft and a cv joint?

 

[kennethjk]

I read this article in autonews,

https://www.autonews.com/manufacturing/fords-kentucky-truck-plant-road-tests-new-strategy-quality

If this is a widespread problem, and of course I have no idea it is, I suppose they will stop assembly of Mach E’s again until a new improved part is manufactured or will they continue manufacturing the car and like the HVBJB just have a cutoff with the new more robust part.

getting it right at the assembly line is fine and a great idea but getting better parts put it on the assembly line is better.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Todd, you should add code P2797 (Oil Pump Performance/Stuck Off) as well, I've seen that a few times. According to one owner, that code didn't even generate any type of warning, I was the first to point it out when I checked his codes. Because the code was latent for several months, he ended up with a new motor due to metal shavings. Stuck at the dealer for 10 weeks.

It's my opinion that a P0C2A, P2796, or P2797 codes should trigger an immediate "Stop Safely Now" message because of the imminent risk of severe drive unit damage if the oil pump fails. Ford needs to change the warning behavior. This is like running your transmission out of ATF in an ICE, it's very bad news and you don't want to drive very far with a failed oil pump.

The oil pump is used both to cool the motor windings and provide lubrication to the planetary gear reduction. It circulates Mercon ULV transmission fluid. Sandy Munro shows the oilers and pump in his teardown video here.

 

[horsiedad]

This problem happened to me on my 2021 GTPE. It took over four weeks to repair. There was no indication of an issue other than the powertrain malfunction message. After the repair, the car made a wind-like noise which the dealer said was nothing, but I could hear a difference.

 

[DevSecOps]

I would suggest you add the recommended service interval for the pump and oil. I read somewhere that it is rated for 150k miles?

That was me that posted that. Tesla, who uses the same system of an oil pump, recommends service at 12 years / 150k. Ford doesn't have the service on it's service schedule at all. I suspect that they might be taking a look at revising it. This was in response to many people not knowing that we had an oil/fluid pump and @Mach1E saying there's no such thing as "Forever Oil".

Since it is part of the motor assembly, I would expect it is an EV component, but based on the DTC, it sounds like power train.

From my understanding it is covered under the powertrain per the service technician that I worked with.

Todd, you should add code P2797 (Oil Pump Performance/Stuck Off) as well

Done, Thanks!

So no SSN? SVS would imply you can keep driving it which does not sound like a good idea to run it with no lubrication.

It's my opinion that a P0C2A, P2796, or P2797 codes should trigger an immediate "Stop Safely Now" message because of the imminent risk of severe drive unit damage if the oil pump fails. Ford needs to change the warning behavior.

When this first happened to me I thought the same thing and posted as such on this forum. I wondered why it's not SSN. But SSN in the MachE means the car is dead and not driveable. I don't think Ford wants another stranded motorist fiasco on their hands (ala HVBJB) if this were SSN.

In this case, the car is able to be driven, although it shouldn't be for very long. It's not a complete shutdown of the system.

With the technology in the car you would think they could just have another warning like "Service Vehicle Immediately" rather than "soon". They could also make this a red box instead of orange.

Edit: @hybrid2bev found it in the manual at 10 years / 150k.

 

[Shayne]

From my understanding it is covered under the powertrain per the service technician that I worked with.

That is definitely debatable in my opinion. The E-drive warranty was forced in place to give comfort that the new tech was covered. We will need to wait for longer to see what Ford believes the split is between e-Drive systems and power train and if it takes place inside one housing. Guess it makes sense to keep driving it and ensure the electric motor gets fired. Being kind could cost you.

With the technology in the car you would think they could just have another warning like "Service Vehicle Immediately" rather than "soon". They could also make this a red box instead of orange.

Understand why you said something.

They have a stop safety now message. Nice to know they rather replace the whole unit then inconvenience us

 

[hybrid2bev]

That was me that posted that. Tesla, who uses the same system of an oil pump, recommends service at 12 years / 150k. Ford doesn't have the service on it's service schedule at all. I suspect that they might be taking a look at revising it. This was in response to many people not knowing that we had an oil/fluid pump and @Mach1E saying there's no such thing as "Forever Oil".



From my understanding it is covered under the powertrain per the service technician that I worked with.



Done, Thanks!




When this first happened to me I thought the same thing and posted as such on this forum. I wondered why it's not SSN. But SSN in the MachE means the car is dead and not driveable. I don't think Ford wants another stranded motorist fiasco on their hands (ala HVBJB) if this were SSN.

In this case, the car is able to be driven, although it shouldn't be for very long. It's not a complete shutdown of the system.

With the technology in the car you would think they could just have another warning like "Service Vehicle Immediately" rather than "soon". They could also make this a red box instead of orange.

My manual says to change the transmission fluid at 10 years / 150,000 miles. (page 370)

 

[DevSecOps]

My manual says to change the transmission fluid at 10 years / 150,000 miles. (page 370)

Thanks, I revised my post.