On, and now Off, the Tesla Bandwagon

D’Roc

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I recently wrote in a separate thread about how purchasing my MME Select AWD was a no brainer compared to the Tesla Model Y. Last Fall, the Model Y was $10,000 more expensive and did not qualify for the Federal Tax Credit. As most of you know, this has changed with the Model Y Standard Range AWD (68 kWh battery and an EPA estimated range of 279 miles) now undercutting the Mach E at $46,990. In addition, where the Mach E has had it's Federal Tax Credit reduced to $3,750, the Model Y now qualifies for the full $7,500.

While I've admired the Model S since it's release in 2011, I've had mixed feelings about Tesla's lower-priced, higher volume Model 3 and Model Y. The Model S had a sense of rarity about it with annual production runs averaging <30K cars. With the hundreds of thousands of Model 3s and Model Ys being built (and purchased) they are much more common and where I live it's not unusual to 3 or 4 at any given stoplight. In addition, the Model 3 and Model Y interiors struck me as much too spartan with the single do-it-all screen.

But when Tesla lowered the Standard Range AWD base price to $46,990, I couldn't resist placing a non-refundable $250- order for one. So much has been said about the Texas Model Y's improved build quality, it's novel use of the 4680 battery format, and structural battery pack I thought buying a MY SR AWD would be a no brainer. I've heard plenty of complaints on the Tesla boards about the Model Y's road comfort; that the Long Range's ride was jarring and the Performance Model's ride almost unbearable. I've heard the same on this forum regarding the MME's ride being too harsh but that is not my experience. I've mainly owned sport sedans and cars with firm suspension tuning and I think my MME's ride is fine. The Tesla Model Y's Standard Range AWD was mentioned as having a "comfort" suspension compared to the long range and performance trims. With that all in mind, I went to my local Raleigh Tesla Dealership (which must've had a new car inventory >50 cars on their lot) to test drive a Model Y SR AWD. I had driven a Model 3 two Summers ago and I figured the MY would be similar or better. I was in for a shock. The ride was unsettling with larger dips slamming my head into headrest. I drove the MY on the same roads I drive my MME and the ride of the Tesla was substantially worse. In addition, the demo with ~500 miles on it had a rattle and squeak from the back. My MME is still squeak and rattle free at 7500 miles.

So I went into the Model Y thinking my biggest concern would be adapting to the single do-it-all-in-one center screen. Adjusting the mirrors and the steering wheel via the center screen was a bit off-putting but those are one and done actions that aren't frequently repeated. I was worried more about things done on a regular basis like windshield wipers, headlights, cruise control, etc. When I heard you had to scroll through screens to turn on the Wipers if caught in a Thunderstorm the ideas was non-sensical. But there is no scrolling through screens. Bump the turn signal inward (similar to the horn on 1980s fords), and the wipers give a single swipe. But, more importantly, wiper controls appear right on the screen with options for off-low-med-high-auto. We've all read about the MME doing phantom wipes in the clear and I've read the same about the MY so I would likely not use the auto feature and instead simply swipe and then select a speed. Want to turn on Active Cruise Control in the MY? Just bump the drive stalk down again to activate and use the steering wheel dials to ratchet the desired setting up or down. Want to do Active Cruise Control AND lane centering? Bump the drive stalk down twice. Within my 15 minute test drive I was completely comfortable with the MY's UI/UX. But the ride... It was so unsettled that I actually became lightly nauseous during my short 15 minute drive. It was a deal breaker.

I love good engineering (Octovalve, Heat pump, structural battery packs with 4680 cell format) and I really wanted to like the Model Y and collect another $7,500 rebate. Instead, I ended up canceling my order and eating my $250 deposit. YMMV but I thought I'd share my experience.

Edit: At the gym this AM, I remembered I hadn’t mentioned my observations on the Model Y’s handling. The playful handling of my MME is one of its attributes I favor most. As I stated earlier, I test drove the Model Y on the same roads I drive my MME. Where I can bring the back end of my MME around with a little on throttle oversteer, the Model Y simply spun and scrubbed the front tire with understeer which may be safe but not necessarily fun.
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Pushrods&Capacitors

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I recently wrote in a separate thread about how purchasing my MME Select AWD was a no brainer compared to the Tesla Model Y. Last Fall, the Model Y was $10,000 more expensive and did not qualify for the Federal Tax Credit. As most of you know, this has changed with the Model Y Standard Range AWD (68 kWh battery and an EPA estimated range of 279 miles) now undercutting the Mach E at $46,990. In addition, where the Mach E has had it's Federal Tax Credit reduced to $3,750, the Model Y now qualifies for the full $7,500.

While I've admired the Model S since it's release in 2011, I've had mixed feelings about Tesla's lower-priced, higher volume Model 3 and Model Y. The Model S had a sense of rarity about it with annual production runs averaging <30K cars. With the hundreds of thousands of Model 3s and Model Ys being built (and purchased) they are much more common and where I live it's not unusual to 3 or 4 at any given stoplight. In addition, the Model 3 and Model Y interiors struck me as much too spartan with the single do-it-all screen.

But when Tesla lowered the Standard Range AWD base price to $46,990, I couldn't resist placing a non-refundable $250- order for one. So much has been said about the Texas Model Y's improved build quality, it's novel use of the 4680 battery format, and structural battery pack I thought buying a MY SR AWD would be a no brainer. I've heard plenty of complaints on the Tesla boards about the Model Y's road comfort; that the Long Range's ride was jarring and the Performance Model's ride almost unbearable. I've heard the same on this forum regarding the MME's ride being too harsh but that is not my experience. I've mainly owned sport sedans and cars with firm suspension tuning and I think my MME's ride is fine. The Tesla Model Y's Standard Range AWD was mentioned as having a "comfort" suspension compared to the long range and performance trims. With that all in mind, I went to my local Raleigh Tesla Dealership (which must've had a new car inventory >50 cars on their lot) to test drive a Model Y SR AWD. I had driven a Model 3 two Summers ago and I figured the MY would be similar or better. I was in for a shock. The ride was unsettling with larger dips slamming my head into headrest. I drove the MY on the same roads I drive my MME and the ride of the Tesla was substantially worse. In addition, the demo with ~500 miles on it had a rattle and squeak from the back. My MME is still squeak and rattle free at 7500 miles.

So I went into the Model Y thinking my biggest concern would be adapting to the single do-it-all-in-one center screen. Adjusting the mirrors and the steering wheel via the center screen was a bit off-putting but those are one and done actions that aren't frequently repeated. I was worried more about things done on a regular basis like windshield wipers, headlights, cruise control, etc. When I heard you had to scroll through screens to turn on the Wipers if caught in a Thunderstorm the ideas was non-sensical. But there is no scrolling through screens. Bump the turn signal inward (similar to the horn on 1980s fords), and the wipers give a single swipe. But, more importantly, wiper controls appear right on the screen with options for off-low-med-high-auto. We've all read about the MME doing phantom wipes in the clear and I've read the same about the MY so I would likely not use the auto feature and instead simply swipe and then select a speed. Want to turn on Active Cruise Control in the MY? Just bump the drive stalk down again to activate and use the steering wheel dials to ratchet the desired setting up or down. Want to do Active Cruise Control AND lane centering? Bump the drive stalk down twice. Within my 15 minute test drive I was completely comfortable with the MY's UI/UX. But the ride... It was so unsettled that I actually became lightly nauseous during my short 15 minute drive. It was a deal breaker.

I love good engineering (Octovalve, Heat pump, structural battery packs with 4680 cell format) and I really wanted to like the Model Y and collect another $7,500 rebate. Instead, I ended up canceling my order and eating my $250 deposit. YMMV but I thought I'd share my experience.
Good post. We recently had Y and 3 rentals for a few weeks and I can echo your statement about rattles. Plus, the frameless window seals are extremely poor fitting. The 3 leaked water so we took it back and got the Y. It leaked too.

It bears repeating, Tesla build quality wouldn’t be acceptable in a 1986 Hyundai Excel, or, even a Yugo of the same vintage. For all of Tesla’s technical prowess they still haven’t gotten the basics of screwing together the damn cars.
 

eleven24

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I recently wrote in a separate thread about how purchasing my MME Select AWD was a no brainer compared to the Tesla Model Y. Last Fall, the Model Y was $10,000 more expensive and did not qualify for the Federal Tax Credit. As most of you know, this has changed with the Model Y Standard Range AWD (68 kWh battery and an EPA estimated range of 279 miles) now undercutting the Mach E at $46,990. In addition, where the Mach E has had it's Federal Tax Credit reduced to $3,750, the Model Y now qualifies for the full $7,500.

While I've admired the Model S since it's release in 2011, I've had mixed feelings about Tesla's lower-priced, higher volume Model 3 and Model Y. The Model S had a sense of rarity about it with annual production runs averaging <30K cars. With the hundreds of thousands of Model 3s and Model Ys being built (and purchased) they are much more common and where I live it's not unusual to 3 or 4 at any given stoplight. In addition, the Model 3 and Model Y interiors struck me as much too spartan with the single do-it-all screen.

But when Tesla lowered the Standard Range AWD base price to $46,990, I couldn't resist placing a non-refundable $250- order for one. So much has been said about the Texas Model Y's improved build quality, it's novel use of the 4680 battery format, and structural battery pack I thought buying a MY SR AWD would be a no brainer. I've heard plenty of complaints on the Tesla boards about the Model Y's road comfort; that the Long Range's ride was jarring and the Performance Model's ride almost unbearable. I've heard the same on this forum regarding the MME's ride being too harsh but that is not my experience. I've mainly owned sport sedans and cars with firm suspension tuning and I think my MME's ride is fine. The Tesla Model Y's Standard Range AWD was mentioned as having a "comfort" suspension compared to the long range and performance trims. With that all in mind, I went to my local Raleigh Tesla Dealership (which must've had a new car inventory >50 cars on their lot) to test drive a Model Y SR AWD. I had driven a Model 3 two Summers ago and I figured the MY would be similar or better. I was in for a shock. The ride was unsettling with larger dips slamming my head into headrest. I drove the MY on the same roads I drive my MME and the ride of the Tesla was substantially worse. In addition, the demo with ~500 miles on it had a rattle and squeak from the back. My MME is still squeak and rattle free at 7500 miles.

So I went into the Model Y thinking my biggest concern would be adapting to the single do-it-all-in-one center screen. Adjusting the mirrors and the steering wheel via the center screen was a bit off-putting but those are one and done actions that aren't frequently repeated. I was worried more about things done on a regular basis like windshield wipers, headlights, cruise control, etc. When I heard you had to scroll through screens to turn on the Wipers if caught in a Thunderstorm the ideas was non-sensical. But there is no scrolling through screens. Bump the turn signal inward (similar to the horn on 1980s fords), and the wipers give a single swipe. But, more importantly, wiper controls appear right on the screen with options for off-low-med-high-auto. We've all read about the MME doing phantom wipes in the clear and I've read the same about the MY so I would likely not use the auto feature and instead simply swipe and then select a speed. Want to turn on Active Cruise Control in the MY? Just bump the drive stalk down again to activate and use the steering wheel dials to ratchet the desired setting up or down. Want to do Active Cruise Control AND lane centering? Bump the drive stalk down twice. Within my 15 minute test drive I was completely comfortable with the MY's UI/UX. But the ride... It was so unsettled that I actually became lightly nauseous during my short 15 minute drive. It was a deal breaker.

I love good engineering (Octovalve, Heat pump, structural battery packs with 4680 cell format) and I really wanted to like the Model Y and collect another $7,500 rebate. Instead, I ended up canceling my order and eating my $250 deposit. YMMV but I thought I'd share my experience.
Waiting on my MME to come in so I can get rid of my 35k miles 2021 Model Y. If I get mist on my windshield I have to tap the button on the end of the stalk to engage the wipers. This is a workaround. A hack to avoid scrolling through the menus. Every time I tap the button, it sprays washer fluid on the windshield. But hey, the wipers come on so mission accomplished. Right?

I originally opted for the Tesla over the MME because of the charging network, but that one particular quirk describes my experience with the Model Y as a whole. You made a good decision canceling the order
 
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D’Roc

D’Roc

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Waiting on my MME to come in so I can get rid of my 35k miles 2021 Model Y. If I get mist on my windshield I have to tap the button on the end of the stalk to engage the wipers. This is a workaround. A hack to avoid scrolling through the menus. Every time I tap the button, it sprays washer fluid on the windshield. But hey, the wipers come on so mission accomplished. Right?

I originally opted for the Tesla over the MME because of the charging network, but that one particular quirk describes my experience with the Model Y as a whole. You made a good decision canceling the order
Have you test driven an MME?
Do you have any thoughts on differences in ride quality? I really wanted to like the Y; I consider it the Camry of EVs with 500k sold. I keep wondering if the one I test drove was representative of how a MY rides and drives.
 
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D’Roc

D’Roc

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Good post. We recently had Y and 3 rentals for a few weeks and I can echo your statement about rattles. Plus, the frameless window seals are extremely poor fitting. The 3 leaked water so we took it back and got the Y. It leaked too.

It bears repeating, Tesla build quality wouldn’t be acceptable in a 1986 Hyundai Excel, or, even a Yugo of the same vintage. For all of Tesla’s technical prowess they still haven’t gotten the basics of screwing together the damn cars.
It was the Tesla’s ride quality that I found surprising. Do you have any opinion on how the MY you rented rode and drove?
 


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Have you test driven an MME?
Do you have any thoughts on differences in ride quality? I really wanted to like the Y; I consider it the Camry of EVs with 500k sold. I keep wondering if the one I test drove was representative of how a MY rides and drives.
I test drove a MY and promptly went out and ordered my MME without a test drive. I did feel it was a bit bouncy when I first got it as my previous car was a Lincoln, i.e. a couch on wheels. I lowered the tire pressure to 36. I rode in the back seat yesterday and was fully satisfied with the ride quality, even with two older riders in the car who I wanted to make sure weren’t bounced around.
 

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Have you test driven an MME?
Do you have any thoughts on differences in ride quality? I really wanted to like the Y; I consider it the Camry of EVs with 500k sold. I keep wondering if the one I test drove was representative of how a MY rides and drives.
I've test driven the MME GT (non perf) several times. For those saying the ride is harsh, they should ride in my Model Y. Every bump in the Y is not only felt, but heard. The MME was so much quieter inside and definitely absorbed the rough roads we drove over at 50 mph far better than the Tesla.

My wife, who really could care less or barely notices how something drives is the one who immediately said the MME was much better over rough road. If you're comparing, I'd say the MME GT drives and handles more like a German make car - like BMW or Audi. Stiff, yet sporty with a quiet interior. The Model Y is absolutely a Camry in how it drives, as well as how many of them you see on a daily basis.

Of note though, the 2023 Model Y has a "comfort suspension", which my 2021 does not have. From those in the Tesla community I know who have it, they said it's only slightly better.
 

Pushrods&Capacitors

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It was the Tesla’s ride quality that I found surprising. Do you have any opinion on how the MY you rented rode and drove?
Yes, poorly for the intended purpose. The ride isn’t just too stiff, it’s harsh. I have a 2014 SS Sedan, which is known for its very stiff suspension, however, it’s not harsh. The damper tuning and spring rates in Tesla aren’t even close to being dialed in properly for an SUV family hauler. The harshness of the jolts you experience in the Y are surprising at first. The 3 was better in this regard I’ll say.

It’s almost as if Tesla took the 3 suspension and just increased the spring rates 75% to deal with the extra 400-500 lbs and then didn’t bother to re-curve the dampers to match.
 

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At the Earth Day EV event, a person asked me why I bought a Mach-E over a Tesla. I laughed, and said "because I don't want Elon Musk determining the EV future".

I then said that GM, and Ford, and all the other companies HAVE To succeed to give us a competitive marketplace, and CHOICE.

I showed them fit and finish, and pointed out that all the Tesla drivers there were much older and lacked "enthusiasm". 🤣 These are EV people that started a club in the early 1980s, and have had some type of hybrid / PHEV / EV for decades, but that does make them older...

I'm buying the Lightning for the same reasons as the Mach-E, and because it goes 20% faster...
 

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Every bump in the Y is not only felt, but heard. The MME was so much quieter inside and definitely absorbed the rough roads we drove over at 50 mph far better than the Tesla.
This is exactly why I'm in an MME and the M3's are sitting at someone else's house.

That said. Ford putting springy seats in the car really helps dampen some of the road. Most people wouldn't even realize how much these seats offer over the Tesla (any model, seriously any).
 

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I get it from a manufacturer production efficiency standpoint, but I'm confused why a consumer would view the structural battery pack as a plus? It makes the entire pack basically ununservicable and if the battery does need to be swapped, you have to tear out the whole interior.

Same goes for the gigacastings - they extend into the wheel wells and are easily broken in even small accidents.
 

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Same goes for the gigacastings - they extend into the wheel wells and are easily broken in even small accidents.
More than that, as I understand if a gigacast Tesla is in an accident, the body shop can't replace a part of the body because it's one unit. The same holds true for the battery back.

This is why Tesla's cost so much to insure. Yes, production wise Tesla has it all over Ford right now; but at the expense of the consumer.
 

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More than that, as I understand if a gigacast Tesla is in an accident, the body shop can't replace a part of the body because it's one unit. The same holds true for the battery back.

This is why Tesla's cost so much to insure. Yes, production wise Tesla has it all over Ford right now; but at the expense of the consumer.
Yep. I've seen one totaled Tesla where the damage was slight, except for a small "ear" broken off the forward gigacasting at the wheel well. It was suggested that is why it was totalled.
 

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I get it from a manufacturer production efficiency standpoint, but I'm confused why a consumer would view the structural battery pack as a plus? It makes the entire pack basically ununservicable and if the battery does need to be swapped, you have to tear out the whole interior.

Same goes for the gigacastings - they extend into the wheel wells and are easily broken in even small accidents.
Gigacastings are repairable, per Tesla's repair guide. Not everything in them, but if you get to the portion that cannot be welded, then you are completely in "totaled car due to excessive damage" area. For example, the frame rails up front are not part of the casting, and if you are pushing beyond the frame rails, you are in a very substantial accident.

Structural battery pack - Sandy Munro had a great take on this. He's a former Ford engineer, and runs a company that does teardowns of all the EVs they can get their hands on and then sells the reports on them to other companies. Sandy said that you can make something highly reliable, or highly reparable, but they are almost mutually exclusive when it comes to batteries. By leaving the pack so that things can be opened up and modules replaced, the design in and of itself is less reliable. The Model 3/Y packs have been out in the 2170 variant since late 2017, and the defect rate of these requiring replacement is lower than the Model S/X packs that preceded them. Tesla says (for them) it is more cost effective to sell the car at a lower price and if a pack fails to replace it and then send the bad pack in for recycling and not even try to repair it (outside of the penthouse - where the electronics are and are pretty accessible).

EDIT - this article has the image from Tesla's repair guide for body shops. It shows what parts of the casting can be welded and how:
https://www.repairerdrivennews.com/...-despite-many-doubts-about-their-performance/
 

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More than that, as I understand if a gigacast Tesla is in an accident, the body shop can't replace a part of the body because it's one unit. The same holds true for the battery back.

This is why Tesla's cost so much to insure. Yes, production wise Tesla has it all over Ford right now; but at the expense of the consumer.
If you damage the battery, that's a massive accident. The car is toast regardless.
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