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One Pedal driving Mach-E? Are you a fan?

Are you a fan of one-pedal driving?


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portlandg

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Yes, many of the reviews and interviews discuss the one-pedal and regenerative braking. Supposedly it has the three modes: Whisper, Engage, and Unbridled that range from gentle response with lots of coast to rapid acceleration and high regeneration. Additionally, they've mentioned there is a separate selector for full one-pedal driving.
Please correct me if I am wrong but I thought that whisper, engage and unbridled were the MME drive modes. The usual equivalent being eco, normal and sport
 

hybrid2bev

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Please correct me if I am wrong but I thought that whisper, engage and unbridled were the MME drive modes. The usual equivalent being eco, normal and sport
I think the whisper mode is not a true eco mode. It has light throttle response on acceleration but also light regen. I think for a true eco mode you would want the light throttle response to expend as little energy as possible on acceleration but also heavy regen to capture as much as possible on deceleration.

There was talk of additional drive modes being added via OTA updates. Maybe a true eco mode will be added?

I agree that engage is normal and unbridled is sport.
 

zhackwyatt

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I think the whisper mode is not a true eco mode. It has light throttle response on acceleration but also light regen. I think for a true eco mode you would want the light throttle response to expend as little energy as possible on acceleration but also heavy regen to capture as much as possible on deceleration.

There was talk of additional drive modes being added via OTA updates. Maybe a true eco mode will be added?

I agree that engage is normal and unbridled is sport.
Right, my impression is that whisper is a more luxury and smooth feel.
 

SnBGC

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At what speed though does the friction braking kick in? The Tesla does that much, but right at the end to bring the car to a stop and hold. I'm not sure really that it would be worth doing more. The amount of time that regenerative braking is limited is pretty short. As soon as you warm the battery up everything goes to normal.
It depends on how much deceleration is being requested (how hard you are pressing on the brake pedal). If driving an Energi or Focus Electric and slowing to a stop light in a non aggressive manner, then the motor regenerates down to a fairly slow speed before the friction brakes blend in. A clue as to when that occurs is about the same time as when the Brake Coach meter begins to display.

All EVs with 1 pedal driving will also use friction brakes for the last several feet before coming to a complete stop. The electric motor voltage drops with RPM so there is always a point where the voltage drops below the threshold where it can no longer be stepped up enough to overcome battery voltage so regen won't function at that point.

Almost all engineers agree that 1 pedal driving is not the most efficient way to drive an EV....especially at freeway speeds. It's a feature that aids with driver fatigue so it's a useful thing to have but maybe not use all the time. Personal preference really. I don't like 1 pedal driving that much.....especially as a passenger. When I ride with my friend in his Tesla, it is very uncomfortable for me because his driving style is such that he is accelerating up to the next group of traffic and then dropping off the throttle completely. It throws me forward in an unexpected way and is just very uncomfortable and actually makes me nauseous. I have another friend who owns a Chevy Bolt and I don't have the same issue. Maybe her driving style is different or the regen effect isn't as aggressive. Not sure really. I know for sure I don't like how Tesla does it. I really hope the Mach-E programming is different than Tesla's and more like how Chevy or Nissan does it. I suspect so....Ford has a pretty good ergonomics vetting process so I have high hopes they have it just right.
 
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zhackwyatt

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Almost all engineers agree that 1 pedal driving is not the most efficient way to drive an EV....especially at freeway speeds. It's a feature that aids with driver fatigue so it's a useful thing to have but maybe not use all the time. Personal preference really.
A lot of people say its more efficient that blended brakes and I have never understood that. That said, I also don't understand how it can be less efficient than blended brakes. You regen by taking your foot off the go pedal or you regen by pressing the stop pedal (assuming your aren't pushing it hard enough to engage friction brakes).

I don't like 1 pedal driving that much.....especially as a passenger. When I ride with my friend in his Tesla, it is very uncomfortable for me because his driving style is such that he is accelerating up to the next group of traffic and then dropping off the throttle completely. It throws me forward in an unexpected way and is just very uncomfortable and actually makes me nauseous. I have another friend who owns a Chevy Bolt and I don't have the same issue. Maybe her driving style is different or the regen effect isn't as aggressive. Not sure really. I know for sure I don't like how Tesla does it. I really hope the Mach-E programming is different than Tesla's and more like how Chevy or Nissan does it. I suspect so....Ford has a pretty good ergonomics vetting process so I have high hopes they have it just right.
This is the driving style. My buddy uses it in his Model 3 and i can't tell a difference as a passenger.

I had a friend that drove a truck and I swear he thought both pedals were digital and not analog. I vowed never to ride with him again.
 

SnBGC

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A lot of people say its more efficient that blended brakes and I have never understood that. That said, I also don't understand how it can be less efficient than blended brakes. You regen by taking your foot off the go pedal or you regen by pressing the stop pedal (assuming your aren't pushing it hard enough to engage friction brakes).
I watched a podcast on the subject a while back and one of the panel guests was from Magna International which is the company responsible for helping Ford bring the Focus Electric to market. The subject of 1 pedal driving was discussed in some detail. All else being equal, it takes a specific amount of energy to increase speed from A to B. The energy recovered via regeneration from B to A is always less.

The total energy consumed by lifting foot off accelerator at 60 mph, coast for a specific distance and then accelerate back to 60 mph is less than the total energy used to regen from 60 for that same distance and then accelerate back to 60 again. This is true even if the programming adds in some mild regen like Ford uses because the driver has more time to judge the deceleration and resume acceleration before too much speed was scrubbed off.

Max regen, which is basically what you get with 1 pedal driving mode is more wasteful because the vehicle regen is too aggressive and more speed is scrubbed off than needed so the driver has to 'buy back' that speed at a higher energy cost. The more skilled the driver, the less energy is wasted.....but there is always some that is wasted. The physics can't be cheated here.

Of course, the software programming also heavily influences the degree of wasted energy and the more efficient the vehicle is, the less pronounced the effect. Tesla's are notoriously efficient with battery energy so the delta is less. Plus, as a rule, they have a much higher battery capacity in the first place so the driver will be hard pressed to notice a major difference in range. There have been studies though and there is a difference.

According to the Magna Engineer that was speaking......the efficiency loss by adding 1 pedal driving mode to the original FFE was too great a cost to pay....especially since the range in the early models was limited to about 75 or 80 miles I believe.
 

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It might not be the most efficient way to drive an EV, but for me it's the most fun - being engaged on the drive with only modulating one foot is awesome.

I just hope the Mach-E's One Pedal setting persists between key cycles like we learned through that dealer training the Drive Modes do.
 

SnBGC

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It might not be the most efficient way to drive an EV, but for me it's the most fun - being engaged on the drive with only modulating one foot is awesome.

I just hope the Mach-E's One Pedal setting persists between key cycles like we learned through that dealer training the Drive Modes do.
Agreed. For some it adds to the driving experience. Also does help with driver fatigue in some situations. In those cases the loss of efficiency is a price some are more than willing to pay.

If I had to pick out one or two key expectations that I had about EVs that I was totally wrong about is #1 Range Anxiety is pretty much a non issue and #2 Driver Skill is very important. I imagined and expected my EV ownership experience to be similar to driving an electric golf cart. I was so wrong that I laugh about it now. There is a skill required to drive an EV well and it's fun to learn all these new techniques. Some like to maximize efficiency, others like to make their drive tires last as long as possible because EVs destroy tires if the driver isn't careful. Max acceleration is learned by the driver. A skilled driver will always accelerate faster compared to a driver who just mashes the pedal to the floor (all else being equal of course). The software will derate the power to the motor when wheel spin is detected but a skilled driver can feel that limit and limit the derate effect.

My wife drives a C-Max Energi and she can always drive further on a given charge than I can (all else being equal). She is much better at it than I am because she does it every day.....and I have developed 'bad habits' with my FFE because I like to accelerate quicker and I have the energy storage to play with so energy waste is less of a concern to me.
 

GoGoGadgetMachE

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When I ride with my friend in his Tesla, it is very uncomfortable for me because his driving style is such that he is accelerating up to the next group of traffic and then dropping off the throttle completely. It throws me forward in an unexpected way and is just very uncomfortable and actually makes me nauseous.
Earlier this year, when travel was still a thing, I was with some coworkers and one of them ordered an Uber. The car was a Prius, and the driver was doing the same thing.

One of my coworkers complained later and I explained that at least back in the day, when I had my first of my four hybrids (a first generation Honda Civic Hybrid), I read a lot of stuff about "how to drive a hybrid." A substantial number of drivers insisted that "pulse and glide" - which sounds like what you're describing - was the most efficient way to drive a hybrid. It is very distracting, and with some experimentation I decided that even if it did help, it wasn't enough to tolerate the inconsistent speed and pissing off other drivers.

Did your friend come from driving a hybrid before his Tesla? He may be thinking the same way.
 

GoGoGadgetMachE

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My wife drives a C-Max Energi and she can always drive further on a given charge than I can (all else being equal). She is much better at it than I am because she does it every day.....and I have developed 'bad habits' with my FFE because I like to accelerate quicker and I have the energy storage to play with so energy waste is less of a concern to me.
In both my girlfriend's 2017 C-Max (non-Energi) and my 2013 Ford Fusion Energi, which I've always assumed share the same CVT or at least very similar, I've found that if you have the live mileage view on the left LCD, you can see clearly the benefit in letting the CVT "catch up", which is generally won't do if you're accelerating hard. (In the Energi on EV mode, you can't hear the difference, but in the C-Max, you absolutely can hear the engine revs drop.)

I've gotten very good at doing a subtle, short drop of accelerator, from just a bit above my target speed, just enough to let the transmission catch up as I drop to my target speed. I then adjust the pedal again. It's to the point where a passenger can't tell but I can from the feel and the look of the live MPG/MPGe display.

I realize that sounds like a lot of work potentially, but actually it very, very quickly becomes natural... and TBH it's not that different from a skilled driver with a traditional automatic.
 

Mach-MI

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Agreed. For some it adds to the driving experience. Also does help with driver fatigue in some situations. In those cases the loss of efficiency is a price some are more than willing to pay.

If I had to pick out one or two key expectations that I had about EVs that I was totally wrong about is #1 Range Anxiety is pretty much a non issue and #2 Driver Skill is very important. I imagined and expected my EV ownership experience to be similar to driving an electric golf cart. I was so wrong that I laugh about it now. There is a skill required to drive an EV well and it's fun to learn all these new techniques. Some like to maximize efficiency, others like to make their drive tires last as long as possible because EVs destroy tires if the driver isn't careful. Max acceleration is learned by the driver. A skilled driver will always accelerate faster compared to a driver who just mashes the pedal to the floor (all else being equal of course). The software will derate the power to the motor when wheel spin is detected but a skilled driver can feel that limit and limit the derate effect.

My wife drives a C-Max Energi and she can always drive further on a given charge than I can (all else being equal). She is much better at it than I am because she does it every day.....and I have developed 'bad habits' with my FFE because I like to accelerate quicker and I have the energy storage to play with so energy waste is less of a concern to me.
I had TONS of range anxiety with the PHEV I owned before the Model 3, but all the range anxiety disappeared after the first day's 250 mile drive with the 3.

The most fun was taking my Model 3 down to the Tail of the Dragon in TN/NC and never needing to touch the brakes through the twisties, just using one-pedal driving to control the regen and power.

I do like the Tesla braking feel - it's not "blended braking" like the Ford EVs use. The brake pedal just moves the friction brakes like in a gas car, regen is independent of the brake pedal. I'll have to relearn brake feel if the Mach-E does the Ford PHEV-style very grabby brake pedal and blended braking.
 

ChasingCoral

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It might not be the most efficient way to drive an EV, but for me it's the most fun - being engaged on the drive with only modulating one foot is awesome.

I just hope the Mach-E's One Pedal setting persists between key cycles like we learned through that dealer training the Drive Modes do.
Since the Mach E remembers the last drive mode you used (Engage, Whisper or Unbridled), I certainly would think it would also remember if you used one-pedal.
 

SnBGC

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Did your friend come from driving a hybrid before his Tesla? He may be thinking the same way.
He didnt do the PHEV training wheel program like I did. He went straight from ICE to BEV. It has been about 3 months now since he bought his M3. The day he gave me a ride it was about 105 out and the A/C struggled to keep the cabin at a comfortable temp for me. My FFE does a much better job by comparison. Today's high was 117 and very comfortable inside the car with climate control set at 74 degrees. Doesnt use much power either. The weekend before I converted my order, my wife and I test drove a Model Y and the A/C was not as effective as we hoped so that was the final straw that tipped us towards the Mach E since we both know the A/C is going to perform well in AZ.

20200728_134818.jpg
 

macchiaz-o

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He didnt do the PHEV training wheel program like I did. He went straight from ICE to BEV. It has been about 3 months now since he bought his M3. The day he gave me a ride it was about 105 out and the A/C struggled to keep the cabin at a comfortable temp for me. My FFE does a much better job by comparison. Today's high was 117 and very comfortable inside the car with climate control set at 74 degrees. Doesnt use much power either. The weekend before I converted my order, my wife and I test drove a Model Y and the A/C was not as effective as we hoped so that was the final straw that tipped us towards the Mach E since we both know the A/C is going to perform well in AZ.

20200728_134818.jpg
This is great to know! It was hot today.

My Fiesta does a great job cooling down the cabin, but it drives sluggishly while it's working so hard to keep me from nuclear meltdown.

I'm hoping MME will be fun to drive and quickly chilled at the same time.
 

dbsb3233

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I had TONS of range anxiety with the PHEV I owned
Why range anxiety with a PHEV? That's the main reason for getting a PHEV instead of a BEV -- to avoid battery range anxiety since you have gasoline fuel when you run out of electric fuel.
 



 









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