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One Pedal driving Mach-E? Are you a fan?

Are you a fan of one-pedal driving?


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Kamuelaflyer

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I only know one PHEV owner (and former non-PHEV Pirus Owner) here on Hawaii Island. She says she plays games to see just how far she can't get the car to go without having the gas kick in. But there are advantages to much of this state. Outside of where I live and handful of other places statewide: 1. Heaters? what's that? 2. Electric heat for seats and steering wheels? Can we just disconnect that permanently? :p 3. Rolling hills are standard equipment here. 4. Air Conditioning? Kona averages into the 80's year-round and above 90 from August to November with rare exceptions. And humid all the time. That might be part of the game.

What range games do current BEV owners play and why?
 

JamieGeek

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Let me try and find it for you. I think it was a YouTube program actually.....it was part of all the research I was doing when we bought our first PHEV and excited about the technology. Have you seen the patent approval that was issued to Magna for the FFE cooling system? Very technical and full of interesting info...
Haven't seen the patent approval but I have seen this...
 

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ChasingCoral

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I only know one PHEV owner (and former non-PHEV Pirus Owner) here on Hawaii Island. She says she plays games to see just how far she can't get the car to go without having the gas kick in. But there are advantages to much of this state. Outside of where I live and handful of other places statewide: 1. Heaters? what's that? 2. Electric heat for seats and steering wheels? Can we just disconnect that permanently? :p 3. Rolling hills are standard equipment here. 4. Air Conditioning? Kona averages into the 80's year-round and above 90 from August to November with rare exceptions. And humid all the time. That might be part of the game.

What range games do current BEV owners play and why?
Come on, don't you want to keep you bum warm on that once a year drive up Mauna Kea?
 

JamieGeek

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I only know one PHEV owner (and former non-PHEV Pirus Owner) here on Hawaii Island. She says she plays games to see just how far she can't get the car to go without having the gas kick in. But there are advantages to much of this state. Outside of where I live and handful of other places statewide: 1. Heaters? what's that? 2. Electric heat for seats and steering wheels? Can we just disconnect that permanently? :p 3. Rolling hills are standard equipment here. 4. Air Conditioning? Kona averages into the 80's year-round and above 90 from August to November with rare exceptions. And humid all the time. That might be part of the game.

What range games do current BEV owners play and why?
Well I went from the Focus Electric to the C-Max Energi to the Bolt so I've had an interesting experience with range:
  • My Focus had the smaller battery so only 76 miles of range. In the winter I would go to extremes to get any sort of range out of it: Precondition the car to 80f before leaving in the morning so I wouldn't have to run the heater at all during my commute, driving with the window cracked (even when the temps were <0F) to keep the front window from fogging up, etc. (there are many many posts about winter driving on my blog LOL)
  • For the C-Max Energi: In the winter I didn't care: let the gas engine fire up--that meant I'd be WARM (see above about winter). In the summer: Driving slow, plugging it in when I could all to keep the gas engine from firing
  • For the Bolt: don't care. I can go way more than I need to on any day so I leave the HVAC set to a comfy temp and let it do its thing. There only have been a couple of longish trips (approaching 200 miles) where I've made any sort of adjustment to ensure I'd make it and even then it was a minor adjustment (turn off HVAC for 10 minutes, changing the set temp by a few degrees, slow down, etc.)

Since I'm getting the LR Mach-E I suspect I won't be doing anything special about range either.
 

SnBGC

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Haven't seen the patent approval but I have seen this...
Here it is.
Apologies to the OP for getting off topic here....however, there is a reasonable chance the MME will have a very similar cooling system philosophy. Very curious to get my car and take it apart so I can see how it ticks.
 

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JamieGeek

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Almost all engineers agree that 1 pedal driving is not the most efficient way to drive an EV....especially at freeway speeds. It's a feature that aids with driver fatigue so it's a useful thing to have but maybe not use all the time. Personal preference really. I don't like 1 pedal driving that much.....especially as a passenger.
Not this engineer. This post and one other have got me thinking about this and it didn't hit me until I was taking a 120 mile drive today in the Bolt.

First of all: 1-pedal driving doesn't add any more driver fatigue than driving an ICE down the highway with cruise control off--how is that any different? You still modulate your foot position to maintain speed. The only difference is that if the person in front of you starts to brake you have to move your foot off the accelerator and onto the brake pedal.

There are two ways to get max range out of a Bolt: 1-pedal mode or use the regen paddle on the left of the steering wheel. The Bolt does not have a blended brake: pressing the brake pedal engages the friction brakes.

Using the regen paddle is not the best case because there is no proportionality to it: you either get the .4g deceleration or you don't and nothing in between.

Lets put some numbers behind this: Lets say that a normal accelerator goes from 0% to 100% power (foot off to WOT). When you put a car (say the Bolt) in 1-pedal mode that maps the accelerator to -20% to 0% to 100%--it shifts the first few percent (max decel on the Bolt with your foot off the pedal is .2g).

Now when driving at a steady speed (say highway, or rual road, or whatever) in 1-pedal mode you almost never will take your foot off; if you need to coast you'll find that 0% sweet spot. (yeah here is your big difference: in an ICE you can take your foot off the accelerator and coast--how often do you do that? I rarely did).

So then, when are you likely to use that 0% to -20% part of the pedal position? Oh yeah thats right you go there when you want to slow down (just like you'd move your foot to the brake pedal). Thus you're only regening when you'd hit the brake pedal anyway. Thus if you want to compare apples to apples: If you're driving and hit the brakes and then try to go back to the speed you were going, or you're driving and regen and then try to go back to the speed you were going--guess what you'll use less energy using regen instead of the brakes (which just burns up your energy into heat).

Of course: If the car has a blended brake and does all that for you then you get all the same advantages of 1-pedal mode by hitting the brake.

Oh and there is 1 other advantage of 1-pedal mode: The car will naturally come to a stop if the driver becomes incapacitated instead of just coasting into a tree or something.

Ok /rant off LOL

Edit: ok the point of my rant above is basically that if you replace brake events with regen events then logically you'll be better off (putting some of that braking energy back into the battery instead of simply wasting it).

The best case scenario for regen/1-pedal mode is city driving, not highway driving anyway.

Lets say you're a law abiding pizza delivery guy and only drive the speed limit on the 25 mph residential roads. If you can gain a modest 25% of the energy back for each stop and go event then after a long day of, say, 200 stop and go events you'll get 50 of them "back".
 
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ajmartineau

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The Bolt does not have a blended brake: pressing the brake pedal engages the friction brakes.
My Bolt has does have a blended brake pedal. I feel like I never have to press it hard enough to engage the friction brakes.
I periodically shift the car into neutral so I can clean the discs. They are visually unused in winter. Also
when in D or L and you press on the brake, the regen meter increases. When I can, I’ll post a video.
 

LYTMCQ

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I know a half-dozen PHEV owners who admit to behavior changes because of the PHEV,
It was always fun to "beat the numbers" on getting the most zero emissions miles. It's the reason for buying PHEV/EV's, cut emissions.

Smart use of regen is the way to do it in the EV. One pedal is the most aggressive and gets the most return of energy for the effort as @Mach-MI notes above. https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/one-pedal-driving-mach-e-are-you-a-fan.443/post-25803.

When Tesla provided the One-Pedal on the Model 3, they said it should increase range by about 5 miles over the regular, less aggressive standard regen.
 

JamieGeek

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My Bolt has does have a blended brake pedal. I feel like I never have to press it hard enough to engage the friction brakes.
I periodically shift the car into neutral so I can clean the discs. They are visually unused in winter. Also
when in D or L and you press on the brake, the regen meter increases. When I can, I’ll post a video.
Interesting, I stand corrected--after a bunch of googling...

Hmmm not sure where I got the idea that it didn't... oh well.

My screed above still stands, however, just the bit about the Bolt is different.
 

FPLiptak

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My Bolt has does have a blended brake pedal. I feel like I never have to press it hard enough to engage the friction brakes.
I periodically shift the car into neutral so I can clean the discs. They are visually unused in winter. Also
when in D or L and you press on the brake, the regen meter increases. When I can, I’ll post a video.
I agree, my Bolt seems to have the "blended" mode. When I do use the brake pedal I get the regen icon lighting up.

Also, I can control the Regen paddle very well to just slow down or pull hard and get hard (regen) braking.
 

SnBGC

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Umm....
Excuse me please. (hand in the air....)
I would like to change my mind. After spending some time behind the wheel, I think I am going to like the 1 pedal setting for most situations. I have driven EVs with 1 pedal before and there were times where it was too much. In the MME, it's easy to change experiences which somehow makes it feel different. Wish I had more time to experiment but my gut feeling is that I am going to get spoiled by it pretty quick. :)
 

ChasingCoral

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Umm....
Excuse me please. (hand in the air....)
I would like to change my mind. After spending some time behind the wheel, I think I am going to like the 1 pedal setting for most situations. I have driven EVs with 1 pedal before and there were times where it was too much. In the MME, it's easy to change experiences which somehow makes it feel different. Wish I had more time to experiment but my gut feeling is that I am going to get spoiled by it pretty quick. :)
You just have to remember when you switch cars that you have to brake when traffic ahead of you stops :eek:
 

RadivS

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I guess it depends on what you are used to.
I have 2 VW EVs, have had an Hyundai Ionic EV, and will be getting a Mini Electric in the household.

The two VW have Coasting/sailing as default and you have to adjust regen on gearlever, Ionic had moderate regen as default, and the Mini has hard regen as default and you can adjust to moderate.

Personally I like to drive in sailing mode, and decide regen as required. Therefor I was happy to see that on the MME you can adjust to regen off.

How do you then adjust regen on, does it have flaps behind the wheel?
 

JamieGeek

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I guess it depends on what you are used to.
I have 2 VW EVs, have had an Hyundai Ionic EV, and will be getting a Mini Electric in the household.

The two VW have Coasting/sailing as default and you have to adjust regen on gearlever, Ionic had moderate regen as default, and the Mini has hard regen as default and you can adjust to moderate.

Personally I like to drive in sailing mode, and decide regen as required. Therefor I was happy to see that on the MME you can adjust to regen off.

How do you then adjust regen on, does it have flaps behind the wheel?
Ford has not mentioned any paddles (and now that forum members are seeing the "show" cars at the "road show" on the East & West coasts no one has mentioned paddles either).

Ford has stated that it does have a blended brake, however and will use regen first before engaging the friction brakes.
 

generaltso

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How do you then adjust regen on, does it have flaps behind the wheel?
Unfortunately, no. The amount of regen doesn't seem to be changeable outside of selecting the drive modes. If you want little to no regen when lifting off the accelerator, you have to be in Whisper mode.
 



 









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