Order: Cali Rte 1 vs Premium, quandry

tannerk89

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Having lived with a 265 epa quoted miles Tesla for a few weeks, I am fully aware that epa miles are not real world miles. I had simple everyday driving days where I would have gotten home with 6 percent, but stopped at a supercharger.

My use case is the same as my ICE car. I drive places. I live very centrally in the bay area, and a busy weekend might well involve 150 to 200 miles, and with epa ratings being what they are, I would prefer not to be limited.

I think everyone wants more range. My gas car is essentially unlimited, with a 5 minute stop I add 400 miles, and that stations are very common and 24/7. We have 80 years of American civilization built around the car, so yeah, i want as come to the same as possible. Why wouldn't I? If I could get 800 Mike's, at a reasonable price, i would. 800 miles is about 16 hours averaging 50 mph, which i find is my usual long distance speed, stopping for a stretch every once in a while. 800 miles would mean a charge every week, plenty to handle a power outage. Or 500. At that point I can't imagine wanting much more... but 300 epa? seems short, based on my experience with the model 3.

i believe dc fast charging is equivilent to tesla super charging, and we'll get rapidly better (with tesla opening up to others, with a single non tesla plug format, etc). I will also get a home charger (which I don't have now, getting bids).
If you have a 240V outlet at home the range difference between Premium and CaRt1 is kind of useless. I drive a 21 premium extended range AWD and get somewhere between 230-300miles for 100% depending on weather/driving. I drive 120 miles per day just for commute and several hundred miles every couple of weeks on road trips. The ā€œextra rangeā€ the CaRt1 has might have saved me 6 minutes on each road trip, if Iā€™m being generous. If you have to charge elsewhere or donā€™t mind the missing features it might be worthwhile to get at rt1.

Also, gas takes significantly longer than most people realize. I have an Edge loaner right now getting 24-25mpg and Iā€™ve spent more time filling up in one week than I would in a normal month. Time your next 5 min gas fill up and I bet youā€™ll find it takes at least 20 mins to get to the gas station, fill up, and get back on the road. Plugging in at home/work takes 13seconds šŸ¤·šŸ¼ā€ā™‚ļø Fast charging on the road trips take a while, but still less time for me per month to charge including DCFC stops than it takes to constantly pour gas into my car.
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bbulkow

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If you have a 240V outlet at home....

Also, gas takes significantly longer than most people realize.
I don't currently have a 240V outlet at home, but am working to get one. I am assuming I have one. I agree that makes weekday range almost a non-issue. I'm even thinking of borrowing a friend's smartcar for weekday use until my order comes due! And that thing has nearly no range.

It's about weekend days.

I might do in a weekend (see the reply where I got a Tesla 3 with 265 miles EPA range down to 6%? I started that day topped up at 100%) a trip to one part of the bay area, then to another, then up to the city to drop something off. Some days I'm at home all day, but some days I might need to put a bunch of miles in. I'm not talking theory, I'm talking my general weekend (usually weekend days have the most variability, where I might want to do this and that) patterns into account.

I also agree that a 10 or 20 mile difference is not important. However, I've also seen people posting that some of the CR1's are getting 50! miles over their EPA range in freeway driving, and 50 is substantial and worth paying money for. Thus my post.

Regarding gas fill time, some people dawdle; I don't. I was on a road trip last week. We absolutely took 5 minutes, and that included a "pit stop" and on and off. Knowing where your gas stations are, and which have fast pumps, is key. Not hitting more than one extra light is key. I scouted the intersections with maps in satellite road to figure out the exact in-out and whether they had a lot of pumps. There's one station near me that has glacial gas pumps that take 10 minutes; I don't use that one. My CRV also has a 10 gal tank and I usually take 9 gallons, I'm not filling a truck. It happens in 5 minutes absolutely. On a true road trip I might dawdle if I am the only driver, with two, it's swap and go.

There are fewer chargers, I have to go out of my way. The chargers at work are often full and I have to try a couple of different ones, I might have to walk further. Or if I try to charge during lunch, that's a different set of restrictions.
 
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ARK

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Having lived with a 265 epa quoted miles Tesla for a few weeks, I am fully aware that epa miles are not real world miles. I had simple everyday driving days where I would have gotten home with 6 percent, but stopped at a supercharger.

My use case is the same as my ICE car. I drive places. I live very centrally in the bay area, and a busy weekend might well involve 150 to 200 miles, and with epa ratings being what they are, I would prefer not to be limited.

I think everyone wants more range. My gas car is essentially unlimited, with a 5 minute stop I add 400 miles, and that stations are very common and 24/7. We have 80 years of American civilization built around the car, so yeah, i want as come to the same as possible. Why wouldn't I? If I could get 800 Mike's, at a reasonable price, i would. 800 miles is about 16 hours averaging 50 mph, which i find is my usual long distance speed, stopping for a stretch every once in a while. 800 miles would mean a charge every week, plenty to handle a power outage. Or 500. At that point I can't imagine wanting much more... but 300 epa? seems short, based on my experience with the model 3.

i believe dc fast charging is equivilent to tesla super charging, and we'll get rapidly better (with tesla opening up to others, with a single non tesla plug format, etc). I will also get a home charger (which I don't have now, getting bids).
Think of your use scenario though. Suppose you usually will end up using approximately 20% of your battery each day as part of your daily driving. If you one day come home with 30% battery, you will plug in and charge up that evening.

Will it make a difference if instead of 30% battery you came home with 28%? Probably not, you'd want to charge up all the same.

Maybe you drive an extreme amount each day, say you use up around 90% of your battery each day. That means if you fully charged each night to 100%, you'd still come home with about 10% battery left.

Suppose you got the slightly less efficient model and came home with 8%. You'd still be in trouble if you are getting these numbers in summer because in the winter, you probably would not make it home without a charging stop with either variant (or it would be so close, it would be very uncomfortable).

That's what I mean by a handful of miles really isn't going to make a difference to how you use it, particularly if you are able to charge at home.
 

Blue highway

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Having lived with a 265 epa quoted miles Tesla for a few weeks, I am fully aware that epa miles are not real world miles. I had simple everyday driving days where I would have gotten home with 6 percent, but stopped at a supercharger.

My use case is the same as my ICE car. I drive places. I live very centrally in the bay area, and a busy weekend might well involve 150 to 200 miles, and with epa ratings being what they are, I would prefer not to be limited.

I think everyone wants more range. My gas car is essentially unlimited, with a 5 minute stop I add 400 miles, and that stations are very common and 24/7. We have 80 years of American civilization built around the car, so yeah, i want as come to the same as possible. Why wouldn't I? If I could get 800 Mike's, at a reasonable price, i would. 800 miles is about 16 hours averaging 50 mph, which i find is my usual long distance speed, stopping for a stretch every once in a while. 800 miles would mean a charge every week, plenty to handle a power outage. Or 500. At that point I can't imagine wanting much more... but 300 epa? seems short, based on my experience with the model 3.

i believe dc fast charging is equivilent to tesla super charging, and we'll get rapidly better (with tesla opening up to others, with a single non tesla plug format, etc). I will also get a home charger (which I don't have now, getting bids).
The difference you will notice between a 3 and a MME, is that the Ford will actually get the range the sticker says (in warm weather)... the 3, not so much.

Plugging these things in at home is the key to EV happiness.
 
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bbulkow

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The difference you will notice between a 3 and a MME, is that the Ford will actually get the range the sticker says (in warm weather)... the 3, not so much.

Plugging these things in at home is the key to EV happiness.
That one day, with the 3, I don't think I got 150 miles, real world. I started driving *really* carefully after that. 63 mph. no fast accelerations. Power graph up at all times. I would rather not live like that. I think I would be very happy with a real world 300.

What is an "MME"? Here are the wikipedia possibilities and I don't think you mean Teeside Airport.

Ah, mustang mach e. Far easier to type. Got it. I think I'll name mine teeside when it comes.
 


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You wanna do AWD, RWD is slow, slow, slow, it's faster than a Prius for sure, but at $60k, I am sure you would want more.

I just sold my GT, I have CA RT1 and Premium on order, my RT1 is scheduled for build next month, my premium is 2023, I prefer getting the premium over the CA RT1, I had the GT for few months and the sound system, with the signature lights were both great things to have paired with the ambient lights and power lif tailgate, originally I was leaning more towards RT1 but once I used those features, I like the premium more, I am a spirited driver unlike the majority here, my EPA estimate on the GT was 270, I never saw that, 25x was probably my best and saw that only once, my typical range was 210-230, it doesn't look like anyone tested range on the GT yet, but that's my experience..

People drove the RWD will realize how slow and boring it is, there is a reason why a lot of 2021 owners ordered GT, there will be the option of going GT or go ER AWD which is somewhere in the middle, I think most people would do that since range difference isn't significant anyway.
 

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You wanna do AWD, RWD is slow, slow, slow, it's faster than a Prius for sure, but at $60k, I am sure you would want more.

I just sold my GT, I have CA RT1 and Premium on order, my RT1 is scheduled for build next month, my premium is 2023, I prefer getting the premium over the CA RT1, I had the GT for few months and the sound system, with the signature lights were both great things to have paired with the ambient lights and power lif tailgate, originally I was leaning more towards RT1 but once I used those features, I like the premium more, I am a spirited driver unlike the majority here, my EPA estimate on the GT was 270, I never saw that, 25x was probably my best and saw that only once, my typical range was 210-230, it doesn't look like anyone tested range on the GT yet, but that's my experience..

People drove the RWD will realize how slow and boring it is, there is a reason why a lot of 2021 owners ordered GT, there will be the option of going GT or go ER AWD which is somewhere in the middle, I think most people would do that since range difference isn't significant anyway.
soooo... slow is high 5 second range, and fast is low 5 second range... got it.

From Cleantechnica
  • Select: 5.8 seconds (RWD), 5.2 seconds (AWD)
  • Route 1: 6.1 seconds (RWD)
  • Premium: 6.1 seconds (ER RWD), 4.8 seconds (ER AWD), 5.8 seconds (SR RWD), 5.2 seconds (SR AWD)
    FE: 4.8 seconds (ER AWD)
 

Jscotty

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You wanna do AWD, RWD is slow, slow, slow, it's faster than a Prius for sure, but at $60k, I am sure you would want more.

I just sold my GT, I have CA RT1 and Premium on order, my RT1 is scheduled for build next month, my premium is 2023, I prefer getting the premium over the CA RT1, I had the GT for few months and the sound system, with the signature lights were both great things to have paired with the ambient lights and power lif tailgate, originally I was leaning more towards RT1 but once I used those features, I like the premium more, I am a spirited driver unlike the majority here, my EPA estimate on the GT was 270, I never saw that, 25x was probably my best and saw that only once, my typical range was 210-230, it doesn't look like anyone tested range on the GT yet, but that's my experience..

People drove the RWD will realize how slow and boring it is, there is a reason why a lot of 2021 owners ordered GT, there will be the option of going GT or go ER AWD which is somewhere in the middle, I think most people would do that since range difference isn't significant anyway.
I couldnā€™t agree more with this. I have a 21 rt1 and felt like it was just too slow for me. Initial torque would be there but it would fade very quickly. I do a lot of freeway driving and I get 270 in summer and about 250 in winter. I wanted more power so I ordered a 22 gt but after talking to several gt owners they all said they were only getting in the low 200-230 miles and I couldnā€™t do it based on my lifestyle. I ended up ordering a 22 crt1 again based off of fordā€™s incorrect epa. I think if it was the 290 as it is for the 23s I would have gotten the premium awd.

Like many others have said if you are able to charge every night I think the premium in my option. If you enjoy a little speed I would definitely go awd.
 
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bbulkow

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I couldnā€™t agree more with this. I have a 21 rt1 and felt like it was just too slow for me. Initial torque would be there but it would fade very quickly. I do a lot of freeway driving and I get 270 in summer and about 250 in winter. I wanted more power so I ordered a 22 gt but after talking to several gt owners they all said they were only getting in the low 200-230 miles and I couldnā€™t do it based on my lifestyle. I ended up ordering a 22 crt1 again based off of fordā€™s incorrect epa. I think if it was the 290 as it is for the 23s I would have gotten the premium awd.

Like many others have said if you are able to charge every night I think the premium in my option. If you enjoy a little speed I would definitely go awd.
Not planning on fun for this car. I am fine with 6 second 0 to 60.

I have never been into straight line acceleration, for fun give me something light like the cayman s, or a literbike. Anything heavy like this will not be a pleasure to drive.

To get back to fun, we will need a different battery tech, something light.
 

tannerk89

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There are fewer chargers, I have to go out of my way. The chargers at work are often full and I have to try a couple of different ones, I might have to walk further. Or if I try to charge during lunch, that's a different set of restrictions.

I also agree that a 10 or 20 mile difference is not important. However, I've also seen people posting that some of the CR1's are getting 50! miles over their EPA range in freeway driving, and 50 is substantial and worth paying money for. Thus my post.

There are fewer chargers, I have to go out of my way. The chargers at work are often full and I have to try a couple of different ones, I might have to walk further. Or if I try to charge during lunch, that's a different set of restrictions.
Sounds like you already convinced yourself on what you want. The design of the powertrain is identical between ER AWD premium and Rt1. 50 miles is more than a 16% increase - thatā€™s not possible from different wheels and lower tech features. Wheels might give 1-3% aero improvement depending on how efficient the premium wheels are.

Actual differences between the two are detailed really well below, again I caution against reading too much into the marketed range differences unless you can find real world data/range tests with identical conditions comparing the two.

https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/2023-mach-e-premium-awd-ext-battery-vs-california-rt1.21428/

You will learn as you own an EV, charging becomes much easier once you get past the learning curve. Itā€™s different than gas and to be done efficiently takes some planning ahead. Having the ability to charge at home makes all the difference.
 
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Stevey

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Ford has definitely improved the efficiency of the motors. I think so much so that there wouldn't be any significant difference between the RWD RT1 (if still available) and Premium. We owned a 2021 Premium STD RWD for a year (Jul21 - Jun22) before trading in for a 2022 Premium EXT RWD. I think the miles per KW tell the story. Our '21 average about 3.3 mi/KW our current car ('22) is Averaging 3.8mi/KW. Our normal charge is to 90% and the GOM typically indicate greater than 310mi. Charged it to 100% twice and it showed in excess on 350 mi. Keep in mind the EXT range battery is heavier, so theoretically should be using more energy to accelerate (hence why the slower 0-60 time). We didn't consider the AWD drive since we live in GA and didn't feel it warranted the extra money. Wife drives it 65mi round trip with 90% highway, but 1/3 the highways miles are in Stop and Go so really can count those for reference. Long Story short the RWD will give you greater range but you are trading that for performance.
 

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soooo... slow is high 5 second range, and fast is low 5 second range... got it.

From Cleantechnica
  • Select: 5.8 seconds (RWD), 5.2 seconds (AWD)
  • Route 1: 6.1 seconds (RWD)
  • Premium: 6.1 seconds (ER RWD), 4.8 seconds (ER AWD), 5.8 seconds (SR RWD), 5.2 seconds (SR AWD)
    FE: 4.8 seconds (ER AWD)
Slow is RWD at 6.1, fast is GT at 3.8 or 3.5, 4.8 at ER AWD is a big jump from the 6.1.

In today's standards, anything above 4.5 is slow, I'd argue anything above 4 is slow, but not everyone can afford $80k GT or MYP.
 

moparguy

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I couldnā€™t agree more with this. I have a 21 rt1 and felt like it was just too slow for me. Initial torque would be there but it would fade very quickly. I do a lot of freeway driving and I get 270 in summer and about 250 in winter. I wanted more power so I ordered a 22 gt but after talking to several gt owners they all said they were only getting in the low 200-230 miles and I couldnā€™t do it based on my lifestyle. I ended up ordering a 22 crt1 again based off of fordā€™s incorrect epa. I think if it was the 290 as it is for the 23s I would have gotten the premium awd.

Like many others have said if you are able to charge every night I think the premium in my option. If you enjoy a little speed I would definitely go awd.

Not a big difference between premium and CA Rt1 ER AWD, 312 vs 290 for 2023, you get 270 in summer, looks like you enjoy driving your car rather than trying to squeeze out all the miles.

With the GT, yep, you won't be getting high range out of that, I always tell people if you are getting 270+ out of your GT then you clearly bought the wrong car.
 
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bbulkow

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Sounds like you already convinced yourself on what you want.

You will learn as you own an EV, charging becomes much easier once you get past the learning curve.
Yes, I've gone with the Premium RWD but I'm not crazy about it. I finally realized that:
1) I've been freaked a bit by getting 150 real-world on this Tesla 3 rated at 260 EPA,
2) I really really don't care about power
3) I do care about some of the trim upgrades (sound, seats)
4) It's better to pull the trigger than continue to agonize
5) 305 and 310 are really similar numbers - but the numbers are suspect but exactly how suspect will be hard to tell.

Yes, I understand (now) about charging, because I've been living with this Tesla 3 for a month. I can now imagine what happens when I have at-home charging, but even then - assuming I'm getting 300 real world miles or even 250 - life will be pretty good. 150 real world miles is really uncomfortable though - I find myself in the slow lane of the freeway doing 63 mph to get an extra 10% range boost! I'm always scouting with an eagle eye for a chargepoint or evgo logo. Found one last night, got myself a nice 20% top up, felt nice.
 

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Iā€™d say if youā€™d take advantage of the additional options on the Premium, you should go for the Premium. If you donā€™t care for them, easy way to save some cash.

The difference in range is quite minor. I donā€™t know what your use case is, but my hunch would be that you can afford to give up that small amount of range without it limiting what you want to do.

And honestly, if you really do need those extra few miles, Iā€™d caution on getting either one - your efficiency will vary greatly based on things like speed, temperature, elevation change, etc., you shouldnā€™t count on getting EPA range, particularly driving up a freeway into the mountains during winter for a ski trip or something along those lines.
Iā€™ve had both a CR1 4X and a Premium 4X. I started with the CR1 thinking the range was a big deal. My CR1 never met the EPA estimates so I upgraded to the Premium, which has maybe exceeded estimates. My range has been essentially the same in both. I like the features on the Premium so Iā€™m very happy with the switch.

For me, there Is plenty of charge for everyday use. On trips, charges are dictated more by location of DCFCs. I never get to the last few miles of range, so having 20 vs 30 miles of range left doesnā€™t matter to me. YMMV
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