OTA Mach-E DC Fast Charging speed and threshold increases coming this winter

[ncaadam]

That said, since the Mach-E ALSO uses an LG battery, are there any resources/references people know of on how similar/different this battery is vs. the Bolt EV?

The MME has a reserve of the battery that is around 10% that is inaccessible by owners right now. This was an intentional move to increase battery longevity. it can be made available to the car owners later on when the battery begins to degrade to ensure similar range to what they’re expecting. Another benefit is the batteries (even at 100%) aren’t near full capacity. Thus less strain on the battery and less thermal issues that could lead to fire.

The difference in the Bolt is in this aspect. I believe they were providing 97-98% of the battery capacity from the get-go.

this is my understanding. I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong

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[GoGoGadgetMachE]

It doesn't matter. We will soon be able to poop slower ? ?

This thread, like so many, is going down the crapper.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

Oh, the changes that are coming....................

My favorite Dr. Seuss book!

 

[JamieGeek]

My favorite Dr. Seuss book!

 

[ChasingCoral]

This thread, like so many, is going down the crapper.

Speaking of books

 

[iankellogg]

What are you counting as a charge cycle?

a charge cycle as per rating is 0-100% of rated capacity. Batteries are cycled until their max capacity is 80% of the original. Modern batteries very often are 800-1000 FULL cycles.

you can often see 'equivalent cycles' which is basically the 60-80% 5 times. there is research that shows a 60-80% charge gives you double the equivalent full cycles.

0-100% charge every 5 days, you'll see 13ish years before the battery is at 80%.
60-80% charge every day you'll see 20 years before 80%. obviously this is lab testing. time will tell, but best bet is to look at leaf and tesla cars.

 

[iankellogg]

The MME has a reserve of the battery that is around 10% that is inaccessible by owners right now. This was an intentional move to increase battery longevity. it can be made available to the car owners later on when the battery begins to degrade to ensure similar range to what they’re expecting. Another benefit is the batteries (even at 100%) aren’t near full capacity. Thus less strain on the battery and less thermal issues that could lead to fire.

The difference in the Bolt is in this aspect. I believe they were providing 97-98% of the battery capacity from the get-go.

this is my understanding. I’m sure someone will correct me if I’m wrong

Does anyone know what the buffer actually is. The one time i took a peak at the battery voltages it seemed to me that the 100% reported SOC is fairly close to a 100% SOC battery voltage (4.2v). I assumed the battery buffer is mostly on the bottom. 5% reported SOC showed 3.4V to me. Lithium can go to 3V.

 

[oadesign]

Can someone explain to a non car guy what the heck traps means?

1/4 mile drag strip speed

 

[phidauex]

Does anyone know what the buffer actually is. The one time i took a peak at the battery voltages it seemed to me that the 100% reported SOC is fairly close to a 100% SOC battery voltage (4.2v). I assumed the battery buffer is mostly on the bottom. 5% reported SOC showed 3.4V to me. Lithium can go to 3V.

From the data logs I’ve collected, I calculated my ER is holding back 5.6% SOC on the bottom end, and 4.6% on the top end. I’m quite confident on the top end values, but I didn’t run the battery super low on my recording so there is more extrapolation there.

That means that 0% reported SOC is actually 5.6% to the battery, and 100% reported SOC is actually 95.4% to the battery. I believe they centered it like this to get as much degradation benefit as they could on the top end, while still allowing the battery to reach close to full current at the bottom end so the car doesn’t have to turtle-mode at 0% reported SOC. Practically speaking they could probably go to 2% - 98% if they wanted to release 6% more SOC over time.

This type of power cell degrades a lot faster over 90% real SOC (many manufacturers, including LGChem, request that users of their batteries track “hours over 90%” when assessing long term degradation), so that would mean that ~95% reported is 90% to the battery, which is why Darren is concerned about people hanging out at 100% all the time. However, it justifies letting people go up to 90% easier (85% to the battery).

 

[Mach-Lee]

Does anyone know what the buffer actually is. The one time i took a peak at the battery voltages it seemed to me that the 100% reported SOC is fairly close to a 100% SOC battery voltage (4.2v). I assumed the battery buffer is mostly on the bottom. 5% reported SOC showed 3.4V to me. Lithium can go to 3V.

The extended battery is rated for 98.8 kWh. The actual capacity is 88 kWh. That would mean the buffer is currently about 10-11%. It is split between the low end and the high end. I think the voltage tops out around 4.10-4.15V right now, higher is worse for the battery unless it's only going to spend a short time there.

I think what he's getting at is making more of a "trip" mode to allow extra charging and depletion for limited uses, and otherwise putting software limitations on the battery so it doesn't spend as much time above 90%. A lot of people new to EV's don't understand that sitting above 90% is bad for the battery and charge to 100% every time (this is unfortunately what the car does by default too). The software should be reworked so it's clear that above 90% is for occasional use only. Once that's in place to warn users and force occasional use the top end buffer could be raised a little bit.

Shrinking the buffer also increases the stress on the battery, so we shouldn't be thinking a buffer shrink will improve our range for daily use (which would be worse for the battery). It would be a trip-focused increase. Some people always push things to extremes, Ford has to keep this in mind with their durability targets. I wouldn't expect more than about a 5% increase, might only be a couple percent.

 

[Mach-Lee]

Tons of great info in the video, I've been expecting/hoping the charge curve would be improved after more data was collected from the Electrify America network, and it sounds like that was exactly the plan! It was my belief this was one of the main reasons behind offering the free 250 kWh charging—data collection.

However, there are still a tons of issues with the EA network daily. Anyone that has used it more than a couple times has probably run into issues. The main problem is SPEED! Most of the time the car will charge, but often at a much reduced rate compared to what it should be. It should charge over 100 kW most of the time, but oh so often the EA chargers drops down to 70 or even 31 kW well before 80%. It's not clear whether this is the car or the charger causing the problems, it seems like the chargers because other brands of cars have the same issues if you look around.

If you're listening FORD, PLEASE MONITOR CHARGING SPEED at EA stations and work with them on fixing slow charger issues! This makes road trips extremely inconvenient especially when all the chargers at a location have the same issue! Your wait time can easily double or triple because of charger issues! Run into that a couple stations in a row and you're hours and hours behind schedule. EA can reboot the chargers but that doesn't fix the issues in a lot of cases!

 

[ToTheMoonDJ]

Oh, the changes that are coming....................

*crosses fingers Ford Play or an equivalent is included!* ??

 

[2FlyMache]

Set max charge to 80%, charge every day. 80% on the mach E is roughly 3.9V and battery research shows no damage to batteries at 3.9V, past 3.9V is damaging to lithium batteries.
A 10-20% charge every day is easier on the battery than a 40-60% charge every other day.

When they rate batteries they do an extrapolated charge cycle which means roughly that if you charge your car from 60-80% every day, thats the same as charging your car from 0-100% every 5 days. Modern lithium batteries are rated to around 800-1000 cycles. a 60-80% charge every day will give you something like 1600-2000 cycles out of the battery.

So in short, charge every day, limit max charge to 80%.

I'm the same but have been doing 85%.

 

[timbop]

If you're listing FORD, PLEASE MONITOR CHARGING SPEED at EA stations and work with them on fixing slow charger issues!

He said they're doing exactly that.

And yes, the buffer increase he mentioned is also predicated on not charging to 100% every day.

They're trying to balance BEV newbies and experienced EVers and it's not an easy task. As he said, education is the key, which is a little bit different than the original premise that they want ICE drivers to drive/think of it as any other car.

 

[silverelan]

InsideEVs has an article to sum things up.

https://insideevs.com/news/533899/ford-mache-harging-update-coming/


Ford Mustang Mach-E's example fast charging session:

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