OTA Mach-E DC Fast Charging speed and threshold increases coming this winter

[SashaLondon]

So in the OTA you would charge to 90% regularly instead of 80% or is 90% just for once in a while?

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[timbop]

InsideEVs has an article to sum things up.

https://insideevs.com/news/533899/ford-mache-harging-update-coming/


Ford Mustang Mach-E's example fast charging session:

I haven't let it go below 30% on road trips yet (because I am a paranoid pessimist), so the curve I have seen is often a little better than that. As Darren Palmer said they seem to go faster for the first 15 minutes or so, and that reflects my experience. Granted I don't have detailed notes and have only DCFC'd 10 times or so, but in the 30%-40% range I typically see an average of around 120kw, dropping to 105kw-110kw in the 40%-55% SOC range, then dropping into the 90's until around 75%. Of course it hits the 14kw wall at 80%

 

[timbop]

So in the OTA you would charge to 90% regularly instead of 80% or is 90% just for once in a while?

That's unclear, especially since it is a percentage of what's available for use and they may change that. I would expect them to only add a couple of kwh to the available, so that 90%(of 88kwh) recommendation probably wouldn't change.

I have a feeling that they are going to add an "expert mode" or "travel mode" setting that will open the buffer only after you click through a bunch of disclaimer screens, and even then it might prompt/warn you every time you start the car until you go back to "normal" mode. They are clearly kicking lots of ideas around, weighing the pros and cons of each. Ultimately their primary concern is not having to worry about battery warranty claims so they won't do anything to jeopardize that.

 

[Frankie]

Sounds like a whole lot of their strategy is start safe, loosen later. That's potentially good news for with respect to performance as well. (eg: GT trap speed)

Did you listen to the same thing I listened to? Sounded to me like he thinks the GT is already tuned perfectly.

 

[generaltso]

So in the OTA you would charge to 90% regularly instead of 80% or is 90% just for once in a while?

I think the update of moving 80% to 90% was specifically in reference to the charging speed cliff when DCFC. That's not related to the recommended level for regular charging. He did mention that as well, but it was a little more ambiguous.

 

[RickMachE]

Tons of great info in the video, I've been expecting/hoping the charge curve would be improved after more data was collected from the Electrify America network, and it sounds like that was exactly the plan! It was my belief this was one of the main reasons behind offering the free 250 kWh charging—data collection.

However, there are still a tons of issues with the EA network daily. Anyone that has used it more than a couple times has probably run into issues. The main problem is SPEED! Most of the time the car will charge, but often at a much reduced rate compared to what it should be. It should charge over 100 kW most of the time, but oh so often the EA chargers drops down to 70 or even 31 kW well before 80%. It's not clear whether this is the car or the charger causing the problems, it seems like the chargers because other brands of cars have the same issues if you look around.

If you're listing FORD, PLEASE MONITOR CHARGING SPEED at EA stations and work with them on fixing slow charger issues! This makes road trips extremely inconvenient especially when all the chargers at a location have the same issue! Your wait time can easily double or triple because of charger issues! Run into that a couple stations in a row and you're hours and hours behind schedule. EA can reboot the chargers but that doesn't fix the issues in a lot of cases!

THIS ^^^^^

I believe that there is an issue with EA chargers properly communicating with at least some models of various makes. I've also had multiple EA chargers fault, some multiple times. And all chargers at a location (yes you, Huber Heights, OH) at 34kw. And their app hanging up and not completing a session, resulting in them clearing the session hours (or a day or two) later, and sometimes not allowing charging for that session (either because they felt bad or couldn't figure out the charge). Spending time on the phone (or hold) with EA helping them diagnose their issues is a big time sink.

I'd be happy to give Ford, and EA, access to specific problematic sessions where they might be able to delve further. I'm also willing to drive to Dearborn if they want to pull data or try anything.

 

[SashaLondon]

Should have a report faulty charger button in the map.

 

[timbop]

I think the update of moving 80% to 90% was specifically in reference to the charging speed cliff when DCFC. That's not related to the recommended level for regular charging. He did mention that as well, but it was a little more ambiguous.

Ah, good catch- I missed what @SashaLondon was referring to since I watched the video yesterday and saw his post this morning.

@SashaLondon please disregard my reply.... sometimes I am an asthmatic dumbass

 

[timbop]

The main thing he said about the GT is that it's tuned to be so powerful that it overheats too quickly hence the need for Unbridled Extend. That's not good news if you're hoping that the GT is going to be retuned to be even more powerful in the future.

Yes, that is what I got out of his comments as well

 

[dbsb3233]

..

However, there are still a tons of issues with the EA network daily. Anyone that has used it more than a couple times has probably run into issues. The main problem is SPEED! Most of the time the car will charge, but often at a much reduced rate compared to what it should be. It should charge over 100 kW most of the time, but oh so often the EA chargers drops down to 70 or even 31 kW well before 80%. It's not clear whether this is the car or the charger causing the problems, it seems like the chargers because other brands of cars have the same issues if you look around.

Sort of. It should be over 80kW most of the time (i.e. up to 80% SOC). The norm (after the first 2 minute early spike) is to sit between 80-120kW. The chart above is a pretty normal charge curve for the Mach-E (when it and the charger are functioning normally). I'm usually at around 82kW at the 80% mark (where it then drops to around 12kW). That's regulated by the car, not the charger.

But yes, getting only 31kW or 41kW is typically a problem with the charger not delivering as much as the car is asking for. I've had that happen a few times, but rarely. It really varies a lot by the EA location. Most are pretty good, but some seem to have more frequent problems.

 

[AZBill]

The extended battery is rated for 98.8 kWh. The actual capacity is 88 kWh. That would mean the buffer is currently about 10-11%. It is split between the low end and the high end. I think the voltage tops out around 4.10-4.15V right now, higher is worse for the battery unless it's only going to spend a short time there.

Someone earlier was talking about the Bolt top end/buffer. The Bolt maxes out at 4.16V, so not really much higher than the Mach E, if your number is correct.

 

[phidauex]

Someone earlier was talking about the Bolt top end/buffer. The Bolt maxes out at 4.16V, so not really much higher than the Mach E, if your number is correct.

On my Extended Range, 100% displayed SOC is 95.36% real SOC, and 4.154V per cell (390.45V total bank (94S4P)). The top buffer is about 4.6%, and the bottom buffer is about 5.6% (through extrapolation, I don't have an actual voltage reading for 0% SOC yet).

That measurement was taken at about 23C, after the battery had been idle for several hours after charging to 100%. You do have to take voltage measurements with a bit of a grain of salt, they can be sensitive to temperature, as well as having some hysteresis from charging or discharging load.

More voltage data here: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/driving-dynamics-and-charging-data-files.8473/

 

[OutofSpecKyle]

The main thing he said about the GT is that it's tuned to be so powerful that it overheats too quickly hence the need for Unbridled Extend. That's not good news if you're hoping that the GT is going to be retuned to be even more powerful in the future.

Also screw these nerds for not asking about the trap speed. Automotive journalism might as well not even exist, they wont ask any hard questions that might risk their access so you just get non-stop ball washing. If I want that I can get it from posters on this website that haven't ever even driven the car.

I had heard of the trap speed issue in passing but wasn’t really sure the specifics. I will be driving the GT in a couple weeks, will bring my draggy, testing for myself, and if slower than the 4X - will of course be asking questions.

Seems silly that the fast one would be slower in a straight line - to me thermal longevity is more important that straight line acceleration but that’s no excuse for making the fast one, less fast lol.

Sorry to disappoint but I can assure you that I never hold back on pointing out issues on cars that I test which is part of the reason that I’ll never accept a paid deal from an automaker - ever. If they decide to stop sending me cars, I’ll borrow them from our viewers, not hard to get vehicles to review!

Kyle

 

[generaltso]

I had heard of the trap speed issue in passing but wasn’t really sure the specifics. I will be driving the GT in a couple weeks, will bring my draggy, testing for myself, and if slower than the 4X - will of course be asking questions.

Seems silly that the fast one would be slower in a straight line - to me thermal longevity is more important that straight line acceleration but that’s no excuse for making the fast one, less fast lol.

Sorry to disappoint but I can assure you that I never hold back on pointing out issues on cars that I test which is part of the reason that I’ll never accept a paid deal from an automaker - ever. If they decide to stop sending me cars, I’ll borrow them from our viewers, not hard to get vehicles to review!

Kyle

Thanks @OutofSpecKyle! I thought your interview with Darren was fantastic, and I’m very glad you were able to get some answers about the charging curve.

I’ve also been thoroughly enjoying your videos from Europe. Can’t wait to see what else you’ve got!

 

[harrysiii]

I had heard of the trap speed issue in passing but wasn’t really sure the specifics. I will be driving the GT in a couple weeks, will bring my draggy, testing for myself, and if slower than the 4X - will of course be asking questions.

Seems silly that the fast one would be slower in a straight line - to me thermal longevity is more important that straight line acceleration but that’s no excuse for making the fast one, less fast lol.

Sorry to disappoint but I can assure you that I never hold back on pointing out issues on cars that I test which is part of the reason that I’ll never accept a paid deal from an automaker - ever. If they decide to stop sending me cars, I’ll borrow them from our viewers, not hard to get vehicles to review!

Kyle

Yes, the 3 of us with GT/GTPEs so far have tested at a drag strip with the same results.

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