Gullwingdmc

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macchiaz-o

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I fear he didn't get your post in time and went straight into that building since it took you 24 minutes to respond! Sheesh...
I doubt @Jimrpa required a full 24 minutes to respond. I'm taking the half glass full viewpoint and assuming the OP posted 24 minutes earlier than he should have. :)
 

Dr Obnxs

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I think you’re confidence that your experience would translate directly to the automotive world is pretty short sited.

As others have explained updating a phone or a computer, or even a network of computers or PLC’s is an entirely different problem than updating a car. They work differently than what you are used to. 47+ modules in a vehicle that rely on the software to work 100% or fail safely with varying degrees of network connectivity and types and times and regions etc.

It’s not an off the shelf solution that can just be plugged in.
Assume what you want. I've been involved with stuff from consumer products to semiconductor factories and most in-between.

For example, a single semiconductor production tool has over 6000 control variables. A wafer can take multiple months to go through a factory. It passes through literally hundreds of process steps where each tool has each and every subsystem and component has an accessible and auditable hardware and software revision history.

The Ford Model A had 40 feet of wiring. Modern car can have a couple kilometers comprising 5-10 networks and about 100 different uprocessors or control modules. There's a reason I know this is because I've been involved in the industry. I designed and built some of these subsystems myself.

Think what you want. As we all see the path is opaque to the car owner. The only way to really learn is to have access to either Ford diagnostic products or third party tools to query the vehicle.

Ford deployed a system in the name of simplicity that leaves the customer unsure of the state of their vehicle. This leads to customer lack of confidence. A serious no no.

Case in point: the above post that shows both a failed update and a car that is up to date. Both cannot be true.

Yes, first versions of anything new can be a hassle. That is why best practices in product roll out are so important.

Let's face it. Ford screwed the pooch on the OTA launch. That happens. The technical problems were compounded by the opacity of information delivery to the customer. This double whammy was mostly self inflicted. Case in point: upgrades failing over WiFi? Is anyone seriously arguing this is OK to not catch in development?

This has nothing to do with batch roll out. This has to do with insufficient internal testing via network topologies one should expect in the customer base.

No list easily accesible of what upgrades happened when? That's just idiocy. A screen that said up to date and upgrade failed should NEVER be displayed. This happens because of insufficient state testing. I see the same thing when my display hiccups saying it can't connect to my phone while it's displaying the downloaded list of recent calls. Insufficient state testing AND the state testing could happen in simulation. But it wasn't done so I get to see things I should never see.

This goes back to my original premise: how the OTA system was created and rolled out ignored many tried and true roll out best practices. This is why I say a lot of our pain didn't have to be. This isn't saying I expected perfection. I expected better.

But we can't go back in time and fix it. I hope Ford learned from the school of hard knocks. I hope our experience improves. I hope OTA deployments in future platforms don't suffer like us early adoptors have.

I still give the Mach-E an A-. A big chunk of that "-" is the OTA issues.

Another chunk is interface friction issues. The HMI is good, but not great.

Go ahead and think my critique isn't correct because my hypothesized experience isn't applicable. But remember! I put down a check for over $60k to drive my car of the lot. I paid cash. Ford better listen to opinions like mine. I paid to be heard and fair consideration is due. If Ford is smart, they'd think maybe this guy does know what he's talking about.

We only get better by questioning our decisions and actions. I've presented a defendable justification for my criticism. I prudent company would at least reflect on the view of one of their customers.

Honestly, does anyone think the OTA roll out would be cited as an example of the best Ford has to offer? I think it was a decent effort. I'd give it a B-/C+. It's not failing grade stuff. It's far from the best of the Mach-E ownership experience. At least that's the way it's been for me. YMMV

Matt
 

Kabish

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So just dropped off my car at the deanship. I have a case number with the Ford EV Team, ask them if they wanted it "No, we'll do it our own way", his exact words.

Just got a call from the tech an hour later, "So what is the issue, Sync won't update??"... /facepalm. I wrote like 8 lines of issues I'm having with the car. Told him I believe the updates updated sync but that it also updates modules in the car but I was not 100% sure. Guy seemed pretty confused over the whole thing. Yet refused to take a Case number to a resource that you would think would be invaluable to them.

I swear I hate dealerships... Just get the car out of 1.7.1 limbo, which will hopefully fix all my odd software issues, update the OTA module if its needed and I'll be a happy guy.. Hell throw in the Blue Cruise update to boot and I promise not to say anything negative.... for at least a week 😇

Fingers crossed, not gotten any FordPass messages yet that a lot of others have gotten when the car is at the shop.
 

Logal727

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So just dropped off my car at the deanship. I have a case number with the Ford EV Team, ask them if they wanted it "No, we'll do it our own way", his exact words.

Just got a call from the tech an hour later, "So what is the issue, Sync won't update??"... /facepalm. I wrote like 8 lines of issues I'm having with the car. Told him I believe the updates updated sync but that it also updates modules in the car but I was not 100% sure. Guy seemed pretty confused over the whole thing. Yet refused to take a Case number to a resource that you would think would be invaluable to them.

I swear I hate dealerships... Just get the car out of 1.7.1 limbo, which will hopefully fix all my odd software issues, update the OTA module if its needed and I'll be a happy guy.. Hell throw in the Blue Cruise update to boot and I promise not to say anything negative.... for at least a week 😇

Fingers crossed, not gotten any FordPass messages yet that a lot of others have gotten when the car is at the shop.
Man that sounds so frustrating. I’d let Ford know about this. I’ve already seen someone on Reddit that had so many software issues Ford bought their vehicle back as a lemon. It’s a good threat to make to get Ford to put pressure on these dealers.
 

Bratapfl

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Does anyone have a quick video overview of expanded CarPlay? That's the only feature I really want 😋
Here you go, not sure if anyone has sent it through in the meantime.
 

Kabish

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Whelp, got a call about an hour ago saying the car was updated. They said there was a TSB out for the issue of the car not updating. Pretty happy it only took them a few hours, was kind of a rocky start, but they got it.

I have no idea what version the car is running (maybe 2.1.1??) as it only shows "vehicle is up to date". I know I don't have 2.3.0 because my volume bar is still down at the bottom. Kind of wish they just updated it to the latest version, but my guess is they fixed the OTA issue and it just pulled down what was available to my VIN. I do have the CarPlay up on the drivers display now so I at least have 1.7.1.

So now time to drive the car a bit and see if it fixed my issues.

IMG_1879.jpeg

IMG_1878.jpeg
 

TheSeg

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As someone who's run and managed products, I gotta say the status and update features for our cars is maddingly poorly designed.
I've said as much in September and you seem to be getting the same reception I did. You're not alone in your position and I for one value your insights.

With the hire of Mr. Doug Field, I feel we're heading towards a positive direction. I have no inside knowledge, but that's a lot of work to cover in transforming the company to modern device production standards. The fact we'll (soon) get a manual update button is a positive direction. I think Mr. Farley and many others in the company are trying to put the company in a better position to face these challenges.

I will always be in debt to Ford for providing much of my own prosperity because of my father's employment with Ford. I want to see the success of the employees of the company. These are the reasons why I keep holding my ground on wanting better software release practices for the fleet.

Phones are one single computer and OS, and the updates are one single package to update the whole phone. The Mach E has 42 separate computers in it that get their own updates.
I'm sorry, but you're a not completely accurate. Without going into the "what is a computer" waters, a device such as a phone or tablet has different components with independent firmware. Most notably the radio for a phone. All of which are rolled into the single deliverable of an OS update. Obviously a car has a much larger number of components, but phones are not a single unit as you imply.

What you are pointing out is the success of devices to make an OS version tied to the state of the device's components. It takes planning and discipline, but on the other side it positions Ford to prove the configuration of any given car was tested.

What ever testing Ford is doing now on software does not apply to each permutation of components released in the field today. I trust each component is tested on it's own, but not the numerous configurations of components released to the fleet today. In a traditional QA perspective, little of the production fleet is actually tested.

And I also know that Google doesn't always release their updates to everyone at once.
I'm sorry, but you're a not completely accurate. You may be referring to when Google is the third-party supplier. The waves you're referring to is the process of device manufactures (Samsung, LTG, etc) approving release once Google releases the core version -- which is out of Google's control. Not unlike Ford and Ford's suppliers.

Ford has a similar role where they choose to implement software updates as provided by their suppliers. Ford chooses if/when to put out the update to the fleet and how to represent that to the public.

Not to mention, Google and Apple didn't just start doing OTA updates in the last year. They've had many years to get their processes down.
The real problem isn't the concept of OTA alone. Even within service visits, cars leaving the garage are at the whim of the technician deciding what components to update, if at all. The half hazardous nature of software release in the car is exposed further in OTAs.

"Because it's a car" is not a reason to throw out the talent, knowledge, and history of software development. Nor is this the first time Ford as a company needed to manage software, let alone release. As I started earlier, Mr. Park is one of a number of signs that Ford as a company knows this is a problem, but hard to get the culture of the company to modernize. Which is why I have no chill when I say the current software release plans are a failure and must be fixed.
 

Logal727

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Whelp, got a call about an hour ago saying the car was updated. They said there was a TSB out for the issue of the car not updating. Pretty happy it only took them a few hours, was kind of a rocky start, but they got it.

I have no idea what version the car is running (maybe 2.1.1??) as it only shows "vehicle is up to date". I know I don't have 2.3.0 because my volume bar is still down at the bottom. Kind of wish they just updated it to the latest version, but my guess is they fixed the OTA issue and it just pulled down what was available to my VIN. I do have the CarPlay up on the drivers display now so I at least have 1.7.1.

So now time to drive the car a bit and see if it fixed my issues.

IMG_1879.jpeg

IMG_1878.jpeg
Yeah that’s the Sync version that 1.7.1 came with
 

Kabish

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Yeah that’s the Sync version that 1.7.1 came with
Thanks for that info! Guess I'll hold out and see if it pulls another OTA. I'm hoping whatever TSB they did resolved the issue and I won't have any more OTA issues. /fingerscrossed
 
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