Over-the-top anti EV propaganda piece

Status
Not open for further replies.

Larry Paul

Well-Known Member
First Name
Larry
Joined
Aug 27, 2021
Threads
22
Messages
838
Reaction score
951
Location
Southern California
Vehicles
MME-GTPE, Sunbeam Tiger w1970 Boss302, 2002Rav4EV
Country flag
I did not write this specifically because of this article, but last Saturday Michael Smerconish published an article’s that I wrote about my 25 years of driving EVs. This type of “Journalism” has been going on for decades.

https://www.smerconish.com/exclusive-content/25-years-of-driving-electric-vehicles/

It touches on the perpetual misinformation campaign like this “article.”

I had a great deal more to say, but I was already over the recommended word count and had to get permission to write an article this long.
Sponsored

 

Thunderanger

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bruce
Joined
Nov 18, 2021
Threads
20
Messages
304
Reaction score
171
Location
Lake Thunderhead
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach-E Select, 2019 Ram 1500
Occupation
retired
Country flag
It's an opinion piece and clearly labelled as such.
Opinion pieces are meant to persuade the readers to the writer's side.
Sadly opinion pieces nowadays are often chock full of crap, disputed facts and red herrings.
 

Thunderanger

Well-Known Member
First Name
Bruce
Joined
Nov 18, 2021
Threads
20
Messages
304
Reaction score
171
Location
Lake Thunderhead
Vehicles
2021 Mustang Mach-E Select, 2019 Ram 1500
Occupation
retired
Country flag
Usually the media source, in the interest of transparency, would identify the writer's employer or industry if the opinion was about or affected that industry.
It did. But unless you know or take the time to find out who the https://americanenergyinstitute.com/ is, you wouldn't know that the author comes from an entity devoted to pushing OIL.
 

AEGinMD

Well-Known Member
First Name
Art
Joined
Feb 21, 2022
Threads
4
Messages
55
Reaction score
86
Location
Washington, D.C.
Vehicles
2022 Mustang Mach e Ice Blue Silver (Nov 2022)
Occupation
government bureaucrat
Country flag
Even as an opinion piece, an essay by an apparent fossil fuels advocate that declares that "Americans don't want electric vehicles" without ever once noting the continuing rise in EV sales (even acknowledging that the rate of increase is has declined) is just another bad attempt at political persuasion. But to what end, I wonder? It's not like EVs are going away, even if government subsidies do. Americans are free to choose.
 


Ghost Ryder

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2021
Threads
25
Messages
1,901
Reaction score
2,361
Location
LA
Vehicles
Tesla MYP, 22 GTPE
Country flag
Sadly opinion pieces nowadays are often chock full of crap, disputed facts and red herrings.
Not going to dispute that we have become hyper-partisan. People wants media that reinforce their beliefs and "writers" are all too willing to spoon feed it to them. This goes for both sides. It's really hard to find a balance well thought out article now. If it's not another article about how polar bears are being stranded on floating block of ice because of global warming, or about how EVs are spontaneously catching on fire and burning down the house, , it seems like everyone has an agenda.
 

ChehRob

Well-Known Member
First Name
Rob
Joined
Aug 24, 2023
Threads
6
Messages
422
Reaction score
212
Location
Seattle WA
Vehicles
MME Premium AWD Ext. Range
Occupation
ret
Country flag
EV battery recycling is limited because most of those EV batteries are still active and running cars. With a few notable exceptions the batteries are lasting a long time, and longer than expected. I am expecting recycling not to take off before late in this decade, when there will be a steady supply.
 

Ghost Ryder

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2021
Threads
25
Messages
1,901
Reaction score
2,361
Location
LA
Vehicles
Tesla MYP, 22 GTPE
Country flag
Even as an opinion piece, an essay by an apparent fossil fuels advocate that declares that "Americans don't want electric vehicles" without ever once noting the continuing rise in EV sales (even acknowledging that the rate of increase is has declined) is just another bad attempt at political persuasion. But to what end, I wonder? It's not like EVs are going away, even if government subsidies do. Americans are free to choose.
That is the one arguement I have trouble with in his article. He should of said the majority of Americans are not considering an EV. The demand for EVs is still there, but may have leveled out or even slightly declined from it's peak, but has not evaporated completely.

This survey by Yahoo says that only 31% would want an EV where as 57% were not likely to buy an EV.

So let's not pretend that the majority of people want an EV.

https://www.businessinsider.com/most-americans-dont-want-an-electric-car-2023-10#:~:text=Of that majority, 36% said,likely to buy an EV.

All the other negatives of EVs he points out are not earth shattering, ground breaking or even controversial.
 

Ghost Ryder

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 19, 2021
Threads
25
Messages
1,901
Reaction score
2,361
Location
LA
Vehicles
Tesla MYP, 22 GTPE
Country flag
EV battery recycling is limited because most of those EV batteries are still active and running cars. With a few notable exceptions the batteries are lasting a long time, and longer than expected. I am expecting recycling not to take off before late in this decade, when there will be a steady supply.
They're talking about the percentage of batteries that are end of life being recycle is about 5%. I don't think they're using batteries that are active in the denominator in that calculation.
 

Efthreeoh

Well-Known Member
First Name
IKE
Joined
Sep 10, 2023
Threads
0
Messages
201
Reaction score
133
Location
Timbucktoo
Vehicles
Fordson
Occupation
Millionaire
I did not write this specifically because of this article, but last Saturday Michael Smerconish published an article’s that I wrote about my 25 years of driving EVs. This type of “Journalism” has been going on for decades.

https://www.smerconish.com/exclusive-content/25-years-of-driving-electric-vehicles/

It touches on the perpetual misinformation campaign like this “article.”

I had a great deal more to say, but I was already over the recommended word count and had to get permission to write an article this long.
Thanks for posting the link to your most excellent article. Your article was the first I've read where GM's Impact (prototype) and EV1 (1996) are cited as the responsible origin of CARB's ZEV mandate (1990). Being the car nerd that I am, I have followed EV development in real time since its modern reincarnation, mostly through the mainstream automotive media of the era(s) - the commercial internet did not exist at the time. Also, as an early adopter of GE's Elec-Trak garden tractor lawnmower (1973) I have followed EV development since the 1970s. Indeed, your article triggered me to once again visit the GM EV1 Wiki page, where to my astonishment it does say about the GM Impact;" Inspired partly by the Impact's perceived potential for success, the California Air Resources Board (CARB) in 1990 passed a mandate that made the production and sale of zero-emissions vehicles (ZEV) a requirement for the seven major automakers selling cars in the United States to continue to market their vehicles in California.[8]".

Your article states, "This not only captured my imagination, it was the Impact that really inspired the California Air Resources Board (CARB) to create the 'California Zero-emission Vehicle Mandate of 1990'(aka 'ZEV mandate', Memorandum of Agreement/MOA) as part of the LEV (Low Emissions Vehicle) program that was exclusively focused on emissions and not other factors like oil sources or market forces."

While it is not possible to go backwards in Wikipedia time, I am certain the citation quoted is a recent add to the Wiki page as I have regularly visited the EV1 page over the years and it would have stood out to me previously. The Wiki [8] citation is from Greencar.com: "The California Air Resources Board (CARB) was finalizing its all-new Low Emission Vehicle program at the time, which would impose increasingly tighter restrictions on tailpipe emissions in future years. GM's announcement of a coming electric vehicle model was the likely reason why CARB added a new requirement for "zero emission vehicles," or ZEVs, to the program ... and the controversial 1998 Zero Emission Vehicle mandate was born." (2008)

Yet, a visit to the CARB.org site (California state) makes no mention of GM or the Impact prototype nor the EV1 as a really, partial, or likely inspiration for the 1990 ZEV California mandate. I cannot find where GM makes such a claim either (one would think it would, to get some additional EV cred). No automotive magazine article I ever read in the late 1980's or early 1990's ever made the claim either. When the Volt was introduced by GM, I do not recall any mention that the EV1 was the inspiration for the CARB ZEV mandate, nor did GM make such a claim for the Bolt. Today, I can find numerous citations on the internet that state the 1990 CARB ZEV mandate was the cause of GM producing the 1,000+ EV1's for lease starting in 1996 and the several other early EV models from Ford, Crysler, Honda, etc., which is how I remember the history of CARB's ZEV mandate and the GM EV1.

Finally, an internet search on the question, "Did the GM Impact inspire the CARB ZEV 1990?" brings a scholarly paper from Sciencedirect.com that touches on the origins of the CARB ZEV mandate, The origin of California’s zero emission vehicle mandate - ScienceDirect , may provide a definitive reference, but it's behind a .pdf paywall, which I don't have enough interest to pay for. But the snippet states, "How the ZEV mandate was inserted into the LEV regulatory program:
The inclusion of the ZEV requirements in the language of the LEV proposal was a clear manifestation of electric vehicles rising to the policy agenda, the ultimate event that MS purports to explain. According to MS, this event should be the result of policy entrepreneurs taking advantage of a window of opportunity created by the intersection of the three streams defined in previous sections. The analyses in Sections 2 Research approach and data, 3 The socio-political environment preceding the...". One would think the lead of the snippet would mention the EV1. None of the "streams" are industry partnership, industry leadership, or industry innovation.

Not knowing the source for your statement in your article, I'll not branch out far enough to say the quote is inaccurate, but as I remember EV history firsthand, I find the statement unusual. This is what concerns me with the internet, things get written that are inaccurate then become truth. Being the subject of this thread is the opinion piece author's agenda, I'd thought I'd provide such concept of alternate pro-EV agenda.
 
Last edited:

JWPortland

Member
First Name
John
Joined
Dec 31, 2020
Threads
0
Messages
16
Reaction score
13
Location
Oregon
Vehicles
2021 Mach e 4x
Occupation
retired
Country flag

Efthreeoh

Well-Known Member
First Name
IKE
Joined
Sep 10, 2023
Threads
0
Messages
201
Reaction score
133
Location
Timbucktoo
Vehicles
Fordson
Occupation
Millionaire
They're talking about the percentage of batteries that are end of life being recycle is about 5%. I don't think they're using batteries that are active in the denominator in that calculation.
It will be interesting to see how the market is for EV batteries are repurposed prior to their actual recycling (i.e. the separate recovery of its various metals and electrolyte). The recent recycling theme has been for downstream use as on-site energy storage using battery packs not suitable for sustained long-range EV use.
 

AllenXS

Well-Known Member
First Name
Allen
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Threads
13
Messages
1,218
Reaction score
1,595
Location
Richmond, BC, Canada
Vehicles
Premium Blue ER AWD
Country flag
I really like my GTPE, and we use it a lot but I struggle to see where this guy is missing much. The dates and milestones set by our government are reduculous. The math does not work. Especially on trucks. Let the market work and ditch the hard dates.
Hard dates are about leadership, the call to action on something bigger than capitalism theory is critical here. I love free market and no taxes is great, but sometimes you need to accelerate key issues.

This guy just wants to keep us in the ice age, and that really worked last time!
 

AllenXS

Well-Known Member
First Name
Allen
Joined
Jan 11, 2021
Threads
13
Messages
1,218
Reaction score
1,595
Location
Richmond, BC, Canada
Vehicles
Premium Blue ER AWD
Country flag
Always sends to be lots of imbalances with the over opinionated. This la crosse coach with unmentioned academic mentions research from his own published research yet doesn’t cite a link to it.

Yes sales have slowed as the ev world has picked up initial demand from the last round, but showing doesn’t equal stopped. It’s like the GT five second rule, I might be slowed after an initial burst up to 5% of car sales, but I’m still moving quick enough to go the distance with some pauses as we recharge.

after all this un-academic ranting, I had a dose of diesel poisoning a few years ago. Nothing major but the lack of gas fumes is one of the best features in an ev for me.

Is this an article though on why ev’s suck or about the Presidential election? I hear that’s coming soon.
 

mkhuffman

Well-Known Member
First Name
Mike
Joined
Nov 19, 2020
Threads
25
Messages
6,306
Reaction score
8,328
Location
Virginia
Vehicles
2021 MME GT, Jeep GC-L, VW Jetta
Country flag
It's eye opening that I have never, EVER read an article that railed against the tax credits for EVs but also mentioned the DPAD / QPAI / QBI that domestic oil producers get. It's super easy to select any facts that support any narrative. Admittedly the government makes the situation worse because the DPAD et. al. are refunded to the producer whilst the EV tax credits are refunded to the consumer. Most consumers have never heard of the DPAD or been a part of a Limited Partnership or S corporation that claimed them.
I think there is a big difference between a tax deduction and a tax credit.

And from what I read about those deductions you referenced, they are not just for the petroleum industry. They are designed to encourage American businesses to stay in this country instead of moving operations overseas.

The BEV tax credit is a hand out to rich people. If you can afford a $50k car, you don't need a handout from other taxpayers who cannot afford a $50k car.
Sponsored

 
Status
Not open for further replies.
 




Top