PaaK stalled me in school car line and locked dial from Drive mode

[SnBGC]

In the "what the hell were you thinking, Ford" moment ...

Went to pick up my kids at elementary school for the first time today in the freshly waxed MME. Finally my turn to pull up front as all the teachers walk around opening doors everywhere so I make sure to turn the dial to just Park to be safe (but not also hitting Start/Stop button in order to keep AC running <- important detail here). With windows down hear several teachers comment "WOW, that's the new electric Mustang", "nice car" etc. I smile , cars ahead of me take off, there is a line of 100 or so still behind me, press brake pedal ... and I'm freaking stuck in Park and can't turn dial back to Drive mode! Look up to see dreaded but familiar "Key not detected" message so I'm frantically tapping Start buttons, quitting/relaunching FordPass, setting new Samsung Galaxy S21 Ultra (Android 11) in charge bay that often strangely speeds up detection. Some 10 teachers all waving me on. Couple cars behind me start honking. Both kids sinking low into the back seat embarrassed. Had to wait what seemed forever for backup password to finally kick in while cars are now driving over curb around me.

Got home pissed as hell while kids get out. Then thought to myself - let's just sit here in Park mode with car still on and AC going. Sure enough, within a few mins the familiar "Key not detected" msg and the dial is stuck in Park again despite brake depressed. Seems to coincide when the phone went to sleep. Turned off car, woke up FastPass app, the usual few taps of Start button to finally start, sat for a few mins to get No Key msg again, and Park dial stuck again ? Yeah, I know watching these forums that PaaK has sadly been a real challenge for Ford s/w engineering. I even waited around at the dealer for the PaaK firmware update a couple months ago with little improvement ...

But can anyone justify why if I have not turned off my MME yet, just putting it in Park to let my foot off the brake pedal while waiting - why would Ford lock the Park/Drive dial in the middle of traffic just because PaaK no longer detected?? I get it if the Start button actually was tapped off then back on but not the case here. Luckily I didn't do this in the middle of stop & go rush hour on our interstate here for someone to plow into me.

<end of rant>
#wheresMy2ndFOB

Pretty much sounds like normal PaaK operation to me. Not saying that is how we expected it would work......just saying that is how it apparently works in the real world. If you want to use PaaK, then expect to have these types of experiences from time to time. I think it's the best system that Ford was able to come up with.

I tried it a while back and quickly discovered the limitation of PaaK, which are many. Interesting idea but kinda unrealistic to expect our phones to function as a key IMO.
Can it work? Yes.
First time every time without fail? Nope.

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[BMT1071]

Just wondering rhetorically if all the people saying they have issues with PaaK have had the recall completed? Are people still having this many problems with the updated PaaK software?

I've had the PaaK recall update and I find PaaK to be very reliable.

I never, ever use the fob for daily driving. The only time I've used it is when taking the vehicle in for service.

My car was built after the end date of 21B36, so I assume it has the new software. Is that one of the version levels we can see through bezel diagnostics? If so, can you share what version you have loaded?

 

[bp99]

If you want to use PaaK, then expect to have these types of experiences from time to time. I think it's the best system that Ford was able to come up with.

I'd have no problem with that if it were stated up front it's an experimental work in progress and two fobs were included. The issue is that it has been put forth as a fob replacement.

Once UWB is standard in all current generation phones (newer iPhones and some newer Samsung phones already have it), I think PAKK becomes viable. Using Bluetooth seems more like a hack than proper technology.

 

[SnBGC]

I'd have no problem with that if it were stated up front it's an experimental work in progress and two fobs were included. The issue is that it has been put forth as a fob replacement.

Once UWB is standard in all current generation phones (newer iPhones and some newer Samsung phones already have it), I think PAKK becomes viable. Using Bluetooth seems more like a hack than proper technology.

Agree. Ford made it seem like a viable feature. So much so that they even reduced the fob count to one unit! The idea that the owner is the only one who should drive the car is myopic thinking. Can argue the same for those that want their entire life to be controlled by their cell phone. I thought PaaK was an interesting party trick when I first heard about but I never expected it to be very practical for me. If it were an option, I would not pay extra for it. Not even if it worked.

We actually have several fleet reservations for the Lightning pickup. If they don't come with two keys then we are out. There is absolutely zero chance that we are going to rely on PaaK for our business to function.

 

[gomezjr]

If this is by design, I think it should be changed. Once you’ve turned the vehicle on, it should stop searching for a PaaK connection. Park isn’t the same as off, and the vehicle shouldn’t require you to reauthenticate to shift out of park if like OP you shift into park at some point in your drive.

This.

If Ford knows well that PaaK is problematic/intermittent then at least treat Park mode different than a fob (which my wife carries so she doesn't have to curse at PaaK instead with her new Galaxy S21). Until I also turn off the Start button the Park knob should allow me to always get back into Drive. Always. Even just to make sure I'm not stuck while stopped traffic ahead starts driving off and I risk a rear collision with head down scrambling to reauthenticate.

Those that leave the MME unattended with Start still running can explain that theft to their insurance co. I'll even take my chances with a carjacker. Heck, let him drive off my new MME! Better than him being stuck in Park, get pissed as I was ... then coming back out to try to shake me down for a fob I don't even have on me

Btw, yes, I spent 3 hrs waiting at the dealer couple months back for the PaaK firmware update. Some improvement, but not much. Especially when this keeps happening after I need to drop to Park to safely allow passengers in and out. I thought it was because they also opened the door, but just reproduce the locked Park knob just sitting in the car exactly 2 mins after Bluetooth turned off - so 2 mins must be the programmed timeout once the phone sleeps on FordPass. I turned FordPass "Allow Background" back on in Android 11 (don't remember ever turning that off). I do get less "No key" warnings while driving but still get them ... at the cost of ~12% daily battery drain now vs just 1 or 2% prior - which is what I assume Ford says they are talking to Google about.

Regardless - For safety alone Ford should never lock the Park knob during PaaK until the Start button is also turned off.

 

[Smoothbond]

Take the fob with you.

What he said. We don't have PAAK in the UK but if we did and with all the stories I've heard about how unreliable it is, there is no frigging way in hell I would leave the house without my fob. Just NO CHANCE. It's not like I'm carrying a brick it's just a fob.

 

[2FlyMache]

I had the PAAK update but still don't see it work properly. I always bring the Fob with me as it's really not that big a deal to carry in my pocket. I do agree that Ford should have provided 2 fobs and continue to test/improve PAAK.

 

[sotek2345]

Agree. Ford made it seem like a viable feature. So much so that they even reduced the fob count to one unit! The idea that the owner is the only one who should drive the car is myopic thinking. Can argue the same for those that want their entire life to be controlled by their cell phone. I thought PaaK was an interesting party trick when I first heard about but I never expected it to be very practical for me. If it were an option, I would not pay extra for it. Not even if it worked.

We actually have several fleet reservations for the Lightning pickup. If they don't come with two keys then we are out. There is absolutely zero chance that we are going to rely on PaaK for our business to function.

I completely understand and agree with the concern, but I am not sure it would be a make or break on the lightning Reservation (PaaK isn't even an option on the Pro trim if that is what you have reserved). You can always buy another fob for a few hundred dollars.

 

[dtbaker61]

But can anyone justify why if I have not turned off my MME yet, just putting it in Park to let my foot off the brake pedal while waiting - why would Ford lock the Park/Drive dial in the middle of traffic just because PaaK no longer detected??

<end of rant>
#wheresMy2ndFOB

I'm betting you had your phone in your pocket.... which disconnected PAAK when you got out to open doors, and then failed to re-connect 'speedily' when you got back in. I've adjusted to setting my phone on the charge tray under the center screen when driving, and leaving it there if I hop out for anything..... it's the only way to 'leave the car running'.

presumably done on purpose to prevent car jacking/theft if you happened to walk away with car on and unlocked; the thought being that people take their phones with them when they mean to leave the car for any length of time...

 

[pt19713]

I wonder if it's interference from other Bluetooth devices

 

[RockwallRick]

I had the PAAK update but still don't see it work properly. I always bring the Fob with me as it's really not that big a deal to carry in my pocket. I do agree that Ford should have provided 2 fobs and continue to test/improve PAAK.

It looks like they are providing 2 Fobs now, at least with the GT’s but they should have done that from the start!

 

[dtbaker61]

I've done this on 2 different Samsung phones and it hasn't helped with my periodic issues. It's like you have to treat the app like Waze or Maps and have the app open on the screen the whole time, otherwise good luck. Needless to say I'm a fob person...lol.

I found that having both fob and phone confused the crap out of PAAK with the car not knowing which signal to lock on to. Much better to use one or the other. Once I set my BackupStartCode, I left the Fob at home for spare and use PAAK or screen to start.

FordPass does eat your phone battery though, so when I'm not actually driving, with phone in charge tray under screen, I do a 'force stop' on FordPass and then re-start it on approach just like getting a key out of my pocket.... takes about 10 seconds to wake up, so I try to start FordPass when I'm maybe 50 ft. away and it connects by the time I get to the door.

 

[Cnote]

I found that having both fob and phone confused the crap out of PAAK with the car not knowing which signal to lock on to. Much better to use one or the other. Once I set my BackupStartCode, I left the Fob at home for spare and use PAAK or screen to start.

FordPass does eat your phone battery though, so when I'm not actually driving, with phone in charge tray under screen, I do a 'force stop' on FordPass and then re-start it on approach just like getting a key out of my pocket.... takes about 10 seconds to wake up, so I try to start FordPass when I'm maybe 50 ft. away and it connects by the time I get to the door.

Yeah I normally just do fob, but once in a while I will try PAAK again (without the fob present) if I don't want to grab the fob or to see if the issues are still there and yep, same issues. It's not too bad getting the car to unlock, that's fairly consistent, but it usually doesn't detect a key once you have just opened the door even if I have put in it various recommended places as mentioned on the forum.

 

[MarkP213]

This.

If Ford knows well that PaaK is problematic/intermittent then at least treat Park mode different than a fob (which my wife carries so she doesn't have to curse at PaaK instead with her new Galaxy S21). Until I also turn off the Start button the Park knob should allow me to always get back into Drive. Always. Even just to make sure I'm not stuck while stopped traffic ahead starts driving off and I risk a rear collision with head down scrambling to reauthenticate.

Those that leave the MME unattended with Start still running can explain that theft to their insurance co. I'll even take my chances with a carjacker. Heck, let him drive off my new MME! Better than him being stuck in Park, get pissed as I was ... then coming back out to try to shake me down for a fob I don't even have on me

Btw, yes, I spent 3 hrs waiting at the dealer couple months back for the PaaK firmware update. Some improvement, but not much. Especially when this keeps happening after I need to drop to Park to safely allow passengers in and out. I thought it was because they also opened the door, but just reproduce the locked Park knob just sitting in the car exactly 2 mins after Bluetooth turned off - so 2 mins must be the programmed timeout once the phone sleeps on FordPass. I turned FordPass "Allow Background" back on in Android 11 (don't remember ever turning that off). I do get less "No key" warnings while driving but still get them ... at the cost of ~12% daily battery drain now vs just 1 or 2% prior - which is what I assume Ford says they are talking to Google about.

Regardless - For safety alone Ford should never lock the Park knob during PaaK until the Start button is also turned off.

The fob does the same thing being out of range, having bad or dead fob battery. In fact, I just tried it with my 2018 Expedition as well. I started the truck, jumped out and moved my fob out of range. Got back in the truck: “No Key Detected” and couldn’t move it out of park.

Although inconvenient for you, I completely understand why it’s implemented. Can you imagine the liability if anyone could just jump in while our vehicles are running and drive away without a key?

 

[ARK]

The fob does the same thing being out of range, having bad or dead fob battery. In fact, I just tried it with my 2018 Expedition as well. I started the truck, jumped out and moved my fob out of range. Got back in the truck: “No Key Detected” and couldn’t move it out of park.

Although inconvenient for you, I completely understand why it’s implemented. Can you imagine the liability if anyone could just jump in while our vehicles are running and drive away without a key?

I think that would be that owns person's fault, leaving the car unattended while running is a universally bad idea.

Some people can't walk 10 feet away from their car without locking the doors, and that is certainly overkill in most situations, but this is the opposite extreme with Ford having implemented a nanny to save people from leaving the car on unattended by basically implementing a soft auto off.

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