Per Study, ICE fueling costs fall below price of EV charging

[fmtexmme]

An EVSE only adds 50% if you buy a new EVSE every year...

It depends how much they assumed for EVSE cost and how they normalize it. I have heard of cases where people spent $1500 for an EVSE and having an outlet installed. If the authors of the study assume that value and people keep a vehicle for 60K miles before trading/selling, then the EVSE would cost 2.5 cents/mile or $2.50 for 100 miles. That's over 50% of the cost I pay for electricity to go 100 miles.

 

[ChuckA]

It is 100% right. I'm guessing you guys in NY didn't receive a 64% rate increase on November 1st, like MA did. But it is indeed true. To be precise:

Supply rate: 33891

Delivery fees breakdown as follows. The Customer Charge is fixed, but all other fees are rates based on the kWh used.

Customer Charge $7 fixed
Dist Charge .07217
Transition Charge -0.00085
Transmission Charge 0.03902
Energy Efficiency Chg 0.02198
Renewable Energy Chg 0.0005
Distributed Solar Charge 0.00396
Electric Vehicle Charge 0.00064

Do the math and you're just shy of 14 cents per kWh in delivery fees (excluding fixed customer charge) and just shy of 34 cents per kWh for supply. Grand total is .477/kWh plus $7.

I’m in CT and my increase would have been $.31 per kWh for the Supply Rate like yours in MA. I switched supplier and locked in a $.165 supply rate for 36 months. I also have solar which lowers my average. Remember that some of the NY power comes from Niagara Falls and water power uses no fossil fuel.

 

[Motomax]

When I did my calculations a while back, energy/fuel costs in California were about equivalent to a 35mpg car at I think it was $4/gallon. In the 14 years or so that I’ve had my gas car I’ve maybe spent $4k on service. Compare that to the extra cost of an EV and higher registrations. No one who looks at the full picture says that EVs make financial sense in the long run, they are a hell of a lot more convenient though. Using the carpool lane without worrying about a ticket is really nice too haha.

 

[RobbertPatrison]

It is easy to find out how you MME compares to an ICE car. Is this table and plug in your electric rate and the gas price you see at the pump. For example: if you pay $4/gallon and $0.15/kWh a Mach-E AWD costs the same as a 72MPG car. Such a car does not exist: the best is 50MPG for a Prius. 72 MPG is 2.5 times as good as a typical new ICE car.

But a $0.50/kWh DCFC charge would cost the same per mile as a 22MPG car.

The chart is based on the EPA rating of 2.7miles/kWh for an extended range Mach-E AWD. That is the same as 3.0 miles/kWh indicated on the screen because the 2.7 includes the 12% losses in the built in charger. The numbers for the RWD will be slightly better, GT slightly worse. And it will be worse in winter if you live in colder regions.

Green = lower cost than a 28MPG ICE car
White = similar costs to a 28MPG car
Red = higher cost than an a typical ICE car

 

[EVS]

I'm literally paying half to ride around in a car with more than 2x the performance. An equivalent performance ICE car would drill a hole in my wallet and probably cost 3-4x in fuel.

I think many folks are comparing this to their personal situations and discarding the study. If you are a performance car driver and care for perfornance, it makes good sense and very likely saves a lot of money too. But a big percentage (95%?) of people just use the car to go grocery shopping, drop kids to school and go to work. A few years ago, the idea was that electric cars cost 1/3rd to refuel. That gap is narrowing with all the electric rate hikes. While gas prices go up and down, I don't recall electric rates ever going down.

I haven't read the study. But a point may be that with the refueling cost gettting closer to gas (hybrid) cars, it will be harder to convince the 95% of the people to switch to electric.

There was a recent article about a brother and sister renting a Tesla from Hertz. Apparently, Hertz claims on its website that refueling an electric car is always cheaper. But these people found it costs way more if you are road tripping.

https://www.businessinsider.com/rented-tesla-stopped-six-times-one-day-charge-hertz-2023-01

"So beyond the lost time, it also got to the point it was between $25 and $30 to recharge," Steavenson said. "Just in one day, we stopped six times to charge at that cost."

Steavenson said Hertz said on its website that renting a Tesla was "always cheaper than gas" but added that he'd found the claim to be far from his experience.

 

[Guss-E 2021]

I do not know my home charging rate however, at 4.27 per gallon (premium) and a highway average of 25mpg, I am confident that I pay less than $17.08 to charge to the percentage to cover 100 miles.

I'm going to say you are right. My former car was an Acura that needed premium. Mixed MPG was 24, solidly. Premium is over $4 here right now, before summer fuel mixes and increased cost. My electricity is expensive because New England hasn't got its shit together but I still pay less to drive my MME every month.

 

[Old_Norm]

The authors of the study's great grandfathers were probably arguing that it cost fewer bales of hay to run a hose than than the equivalent cost of gasoline to run a horseless carriage. Funny how numbers can be manipulated to "prove"' a point. Remember, you could drown in a river whose average depth is six inches.

 

[awp0]

It is easy to find out how you MME compares to an ICE car. Is this table and plug in your electric rate and the gas price you see at the pump. For example: if you pay $4/gallon and $0.15/kWh a Mach-E AWD costs the same as a 72MPG car. Such a car does not exist: the best is 50MPG for a Prius. 72 MPG is 2.5 times as good as a typical new ICE car.

But a $0.50/kWh DCFC charge would cost the same per mile as a 22MPG car.

The chart is based on the EPA rating of 2.7miles/kWh for an extended range Mach-E AWD. That is the same as 3.0 miles/kWh indicated on the screen because the 2.7 includes the 12% losses in the built in charger. The numbers for the RWD will be slightly better, GT slightly worse. And it will be worse in winter if you live in colder regions.

Green = lower cost than a 28MPG ICE car
White = similar costs to a 28MPG car
Red = higher cost than an a typical ICE car

This is a great table, thanks. Interestingly, with our local gas prices ($3.09 unleaded) and my current electricity rate (.34/kWh, cheapest you can get here with 3-year commitment), my 7-seater Kia Telluride is about the same price per mile as my MME, at least for highway road trips. The Kia gets about 26mpg on the highway. For around town I suppose the MME is cheaper as ICE fuel economy goes down and EV efficiency goes up.

 

[jeffdawgfan]

We are lucky and only pay 9.2 cents/kwh here in North Georgia. Gas is about $3.26. Add in oil changes, oil filters, air filters, spark plugs and tune ups, more frequent brake jobs and a BEV is much cheaper. We have been driving BEV's for years. Leaf. Bolt, Leaf, and now the MME. In all that time I have only charged on the road maybe four or five times. Charging at home is always the most economical choice if you can. Hard for apartment livers to do I know.

 

[ProfitOfTruth]

This is what I show friends that ask me about cost. For my ICE cars, the average cost per mile has been 15 cents per mile, spiking up as high as 30 cents per mile when gas is $4.50 and my MPG is low (city driving). After 13 months, the Mach E has saved me around $2000 in 'fuel' costs. I do feel bad for those that have a much higher cost of electricity. I hope it will stay low for me for a long time. But for now, having an EV is such a no-brainer. The money saved can very easily pay for a flight or rental of another vehicle should I ever need to drive outside of my normal range. My Mach E has never been to a DCFC and for me I do not forsee ever needing to use one unless my ChargePoint fails.

 

[yazoo888]

My data in OC/California: (based on today's gas & electricity rates)

* If I drive ICE, 25 miles per gal, 100 miles cost 4 gallons (gas price~ avg $4.5/gallon if you are lucky), so $18 for the 100 miles

* If I drive MME, ~3.5 miles/kWh, 29 kWh for 100 miles, at a rate of 0.23/kWh (9pm-8am, L2 at home), cost is $6.68. Saving $11.32 per 100 miles driving in MME. Annually, the saving is $2038 for 18K miles.

* PLUS, I have a 7.2 kW solar system at home... I got $0 for charging cost at home (Except for the after tax credit --$15K investment for the solar system, which will be paid off by itself in <5 years).
Saving with solar system at home -- $3240 for 18K miles per year.

 

[superdave80]

It depends how much they assumed for EVSE cost and how they normalize it. I have heard of cases where people spent $1500 for an EVSE and having an outlet installed. If the authors of the study assume that value and people keep a vehicle for 60K miles before trading/selling, then the EVSE would cost 2.5 cents/mile or $2.50 for 100 miles. That's over 50% of the cost I pay for electricity to go 100 miles.

They assumed $1,820 for charger/wiring, and amortized it over five years (12kmi/year). That's stupid, because who would need to replace their wiring every five years? And that's assuming you NEEDED new wiring. Them even adding this in to 'per mile fueling costs' is ridiculous; the way they implemented it is even more ridiculous.

 

[dbsb3233]

They assumed $1,820 for charger/wiring, and amortized it over five years (12kmi/year). That's stupid, because who would need to replace their wiring every five years? And that's assuming you NEEDED new wiring. Them even adding this in to 'per mile fueling costs' is ridiculous; the way they implemented it is even more ridiculous.

$1820 seems like the right ballpark, and 5 years for replacing the EVSE *might* be a reasonable ballpark, but yeah, not the wiring. That part (which is commonly 2/3rds of the cost of an EVSE install) should be amortized over like 30 years or something.

It's fair to count that in the fueling cost since it is a real cost for most people, but they sure dropped the ball on reasonable amortization for that piece.

 

[superdave80]

It's fair to count that in the fueling cost since it is a real cost for most people, but they sure dropped the ball on reasonable amortization for that piece.

My problem with them including it is they are claiming this is "How much does 'fuel' cost to drive 100 miles?" If you include the charger, you are now inching into "Total cost of ownership", not a per mile cost analysis. My charger/wiring (which cost me $0, by the way) does not change whether I drive one mile or 100k miles.

If they aren't going to include oil changes (which is a per mile cost that an ICE literally can't avoid), then you can't include the charger/wiring and call it a fair analysis. And if you say "Oil isn't fuel", well... a charger isn't electricity

 

[dbsb3233]

My problem with them including it is they are claiming this is "How much does 'fuel' cost to drive $100 miles?" If you include the charger, you are now inching into "Total cost of ownership", not a per mile cost analysis. My charger/wiring (which cost me $0, by the way) does not change whether I drive one mile or 100k miles.

If they aren't going to include oil changes (which is a per mile cost that an ICE literally can't avoid), then you can't include the charger/wiring and call it a fair analysis. And if you say "Oil isn't fuel", well... a charger isn't electricity

Semantics, I suppose, but the title is actually "Costs of Fueling", which could mean the things needed to fuel in addition to the fuel itself. The chart breaks it out into Energy Costs, Road Taxes, Cost of Chargers, and Cost of Deadhead Miles.

But of course that's gonna vary. Some people already have an installed EVSE, while others need a $5000 upgrade to their service, subpanel, etc.

I think they did a bad job with their amortization, but in principle I'm OK with them adding the charger cost (since most people are first-time EV buyers at this point and usually need a home EVSE/circuit install). The road taxes are there only because they're already included in gas (gas tax), so they're adding the countertpart on the other side. The deadhead miles are tricky. I might have a bigger issue with those, although they barely count anything for mostly home charging so kinda moot there.