Per Study, ICE fueling costs fall below price of EV charging

[kindofblue]

I charge at work for cheap/free. But if I were to charge at home, even paying California's crazy residential high prices (.38/kWh) and even assuming 3.1 mi/kWh (worse than I get), that still only comes out to around $12.26. My more 'realistic' cost (.24/kWh for overnight charging plan, 4 mi/kWh) would be $5.85, half of what they list.

I can't see the study, so I'm not sure what numbers they are using. The ICE number seems about right assuming 30mpg and $3.40/gal.

A gas station I passed yesterday here had regular gas at $4.77/gal.

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[acosmichippo]

I'd like to see this study redone while adding externalized fuel costs. Sure, maybe in some cases gas is cheaper if you offload the emissions cleanup etc on everyone else.

 

[devmach-e]

A gas station I passed yesterday here had regular gas at $4.77/gal.

In the Bay Area, it is somewhere between $3.50 and $5 a gallon. For instance, Costco by my house is $4.14, but the local Chevron or Shell station is $4.70. But down in San Jose, Costco is $3.89 and a nearby 76 station (close to the airport, of course) is $4.59.

 

[Ma9573]

Lol this is one of the dumbest, most intentionally disingenuous "studies" funded by the petroleum industry or their ilk, and there have been many.

In CA the DCFC rate at EA is $.31 plus $4 per month. That's literally the highest rate the study should be including for anyone in CA in this "study". Cuz if your home rate is much higher, screw it, go to EA. Some deadhead miles maybe, but gas stations have those too if you're cutest conscious, and you can't get gas while at Target, the grocery, the movies, restaurants (often for free with Volta or others) etc.

The cheapest gas within my City is $4.40 (requires more "deadhead miles" than the EA stations, just FYi).

At 30mpg (which literally like 20% of ICE cars get), that's $14.65.

My current GT and former Polestar (traded for my wife's AWD RT 1) gets/got 3.1MPK for $10/100 miles plus $4 a month

My RT 1 RWD got 4.1mpk for $7.56 plus $4 a month (traded it for the GT)

My wife's current AWD RT 1 gets 3.7mpk for $8.40 plus $4 per month

So yeah, if you drive like 100 miles a month and add in the EV registration taxes, you may be cheaper in an ice for those 1200 miles a year you drive... But who needs to buy a car for that?

Did the study include the free charging almost EVERY EV gets in some way? Of course not. Why do you think Electrify America stations are packed even in non-long distance travel corridors (like SF)? Because E-Tron, EV-6, Ioniq 5, Polestar - deep breath - Kona EV, Ioniq (original), ID-4, Mach E (I'm bored)... ALL get some form of free charging from EA upon purchase. From $77 worth for the Mach Es that only got 250kwh, to 3 freaking YEARS with the ID-4.

I have no home charging available (I street park), and paid ZERO dollars in fuel costs with my Polestar. Literally ZERO. And I am not alone. My sister has an Ioniq 5 and even though she could charge in Sacramento where she lives, she doesn't, cuz why pay $.20 per kilowatt or whatever when you get it FREE from EA (only 2 miles farther than they nearest gas station, and in the direction she travels 90% of the time).

But I'm sure Chevron and Shell are giving out tons of free gas on top of their billions in stock buybacks 🫤

And then there's solar... Whatever this is so dumb

 

[Phil Martin]

You just spent $60/70/80k for the car, does it really matter if it cost $2500, $2000 or $1,500 a year to operate it? I've never understood the infatuation with vehicle fuel prices. Look at the bigger picture and just enjoy the car regardless of what some "study" or someone else says what your paying or they're to operate it.

 

[acosmichippo]

You just spent $60/70/80k for the car, does it really matter if it cost $2500, $2000 or $1,500 a year to operate it? I've never understood the infatuation with vehicle fuel prices. Look at the bigger picture and just enjoy the car regardless of what some "study" or someone else says what your paying or they're to operate it.

we are looking at “the bigger picture”. the bigger picture of EVs in general and reducing greenhouse gasses.

 

[dbsb3233]

You just spent $60/70/80k for the car, does it really matter if it cost $2500, $2000 or $1,500 a year to operate it? I've never understood the infatuation with vehicle fuel prices. Look at the bigger picture and just enjoy the car regardless of what some "study" or someone else says what your paying or they're to operate it.

For people wealthy enough that $60k is no big deal (probably paying cash), probably not.

But for many others, an 8c/mile fuel savings ($8000 over 100k miles) may be the difference in what allows them to spend $15k more on an EV vs ICE to begin with.

 

[dbsb3233]

we are looking at “the bigger picture”. the bigger picture of EVs in general and reducing greenhouse gasses.

Well, some consumers are motivated by that. I think most mainstream buyers just care about normal purchase criteria (price, performance, looks, features, practicality for their situation, etc).

 

[acosmichippo]

Well, some consumers are motivated by that. I think most mainstream buyers just care about normal purchase criteria (price, performance, looks, features, practicality for their situation, etc).

I was disagreeing with the characterization that we aren't looking at "the big picture". Of course different people care about different things (rightly or wrongly), but if you're only worried about your own finances, you're objectively not looking at the big picture.

 

[Guss-E 2021]

Just caught this little headline. Get ready for another knee-jerk BEV buying frenzy heading into summer.

CNN: Why gas prices are surging this month.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/27/business/gas-prices-increase-inflation/index.html

 

[dbsb3233]

Just caught this little headline. Get ready for another knee-jerk BEV buying frenzy heading into summer.

CNN: Why gas prices are surging this month.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/27/business/gas-prices-increase-inflation/index.html

Perhaps, but this time loan interest rates are way higher. Suddenly $4 gas doesn't seem so bad compared to a $1000 car payment.

 

[Guss-E 2021]

Perhaps, but this time loan interest rates are way higher. Suddenly $4 gas doesn't seem so bad compared to a $1000 car payment.

Right, true that. No frenzy unless sticker prices come down.

 

[schulmeia]

I was going to place (probably flawed) in front of Study in the title of this thread. But the Anderson Economic Group has determined the average cost to charge an EV, AT HOME, in order to drive 100 miles is $11.60 compared to $11.29 for gasoline for an ICE vehicle.
ICE fueling costs fall below price of EV charging in the midrange segment, study says
I don’t know about the rest of you, but my mi/kWh average over the last 5,000 miles was 3.1 which would make my charging at home cost $3.83. Adding in the expense of my 4+ year old L2 which I’ve used for ~ 50k EV miles still only adds $0.20 to the above.
Does anyone on this forum pay $11.60 in electric and related costs to go 100 miles?!?

Here in Hawaii our rates are 46 cents per KWhr. Even at these rates my cost is nearly 50% that I got on my Tacoma

 

[JSeis]

Cost me $1.81 to go 100 miles. In 38,000 miles I’ve averaged 3.5 mi/KWh at $.0634 per kWh.

 

[Fixbear]

Consider yourself lucky and blessed. In the northeast, there's no such thing as "offpeak" rates. We pay 24 cents/kwh all year long.

That's Con-Ed. The rest of the state is a lot cheaper but climbing. We have a lot of Hydro, NYSPA controls a lot as well as National Grid. But we also have small villages that have their own power company and Hydro like Potsdam. There are also a number of free level 2s due to a fine for overcharges.

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