Phone as a Key - Unlock doors upon Approach?

[JBB_JD]

Pixel 4 here. It is running latest OS that Verizon pushed. Sometimes, in family room, I see alert on phone that it is trying to connect to MME about 20-30 feet away in garage. I am thinking battery is draining due to trying to connect. OTA should help with PaaK. When is that first one teased?

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[eltonlin]

This is all examples of why Apple decided to start with NFC for carKey and expand to UWB. Technologies much more accurate in determining user proximity and intent. BLE is a solution with many quirks and faults.

 

[wmaney]

Any new technology should work better than the established technology. Working "sometimes" is a failure. Ford should have known this failure was present prior to shipping cars. They should have provided two fobs so they could say "Old tech, which we all know is reliable, is still included. In addition, a new technology is also provided, which we hope will soon become more capable than the old technology." If HomeLink in the Mach-E works as poorly as PAAK, those of us with garage door openers will all need to put old style garage door openers in our cars to be able to get into our homes. Delivering a garage door opener that works most of the time would not be any more acceptable than telling us to use PAAK, which works most of the time.

I have set up homeland for both neighborhood gate and garage door - so far they consistently work. I will report if I have issues with either homelink or PAAK - but so far both are working fine. Using iPhone 12 Pro running iOS 14.4. Given all the posts mentioning problems, I am seriously considering getting second FOB.

 

[Kkp]

Totally agree with you. And for the price, I wish they would've provided two fobs but that's just my opinion.

Yes not sure what they want to save with just 1 key. They are betting a lot with paak. Let’s swe with first OTA what they will do. Any information when they will push OTA ?

 

[TheSeg]

I know that most of the reviewers where given an iPhone as they key, I'm surprised we haven't seen more complaints about the system from them.

I had a horrifying thought. I wonder if the review phones were set in Kiosk (Single App) Mode for FordPass. I have no proof of this, it's just a theory.

This mode keeps the one app in the foreground and never closes (nor can you do anything else than the one selected app). While I don't see this as a nefarious action, it does set the environment to be more favorable than real world situations.

This is all examples of why Apple decided to start with NFC for carKey and expand to UWB.

More importantly, Car Key runs without the app open or installed. Specifically in the Secure Element allowing the key to work on "no power left" mode when the user opts in.

Android hasn't implemented the standard yet, but will in the future. Apple Car Key is using the 2.0 spec with includes NFC. The future 3.0 spec adds Bluetooth LE and UWB as a compatible communication protocol. The UWB allows for fancy find-your-car tricks, while BLE or NFC unlocks the car.

EDIT: @eltonlin corrects me that the keys are in the Secure Element, not the Secure Enclave. Change made in the post.

 

[eltonlin]

More importantly, Car Key runs without the app open or installed. Specifically in the secure enclave allowing the key to work on "no power left" mode when the user opts in.

Actually, its stored in the Secure Element (SE), not Secure Enclave (SEP).

 

[JellyBelly]

I had a horrifying thought. I wonder if the review phones were set in Kiosk (Single App) Mode for FordPass. I have no proof of this, it's just a theory.

This mode keeps the one app in the foreground and never closes (nor can you do anything else than the one selected app). While I don't see this as a nefarious action, it does set the environment to be more favorable than real world situations.


More importantly, Car Key runs without the app open or installed. Specifically in the secure enclave allowing the key to work on "no power left" mode when the user opts in.

Android hasn't implemented the standard yet, but will in the future. Apple Car Key is using the 2.0 spec with includes NFC. The future 3.0 spec adds Bluetooth LE and UWB as a compatible communication protocol. The UWB allows for fancy find-your-car tricks, while BLE or NFC unlocks the car.

Can’t use Apple car key with MME right?

 

[TheSeg]

Can’t use Apple car key with MME right?

Sadly I don't think so. If it was so, it would be a big marketing point and adorn with bells (2021 model BMWs are the only cars out that support spec 2.0 currently).

To me, this means that the Mach-E doesn't support NFC, which is what spec 2.0 only supports. The 3.0 spec adds Bluetooth LE support, which maybe what the current Ford PaaK uses? Trivial for Apple to add, and what I suspect Android is waiting on.

My hope is that the compute running PaaK on the car was built to update to the 3.0 spec. App implementation to setup a key is trivial. Big questions I have no answers for.

 

[macchiaz-o]

To me, this means that the Mach-E doesn't support NFC, which is what spec 2.0 only supports. The 3.0 spec adds Bluetooth LE support, which maybe what the current Ford PaaK uses? Trivial for Apple to add, and what I suspect Android is waiting on.

So if I'm understanding you correctly, Digital Key 2.0 requires NFC, which in turn would require me to tap my phone to the right spot on the car to gain access (e.g. tap to the door handle or something like that). This doesn't sound very convenient. It seems almost like going back to a physical key, except now the key is a large rectangular slab of glass and plastic.

If that's how it works, I think I'd rather just use a RF key fob in my pocket... like what nearly all cars come with these days.

My hope is that the compute running PaaK on the car was built to update to the 3.0 spec. App implementation to setup a key is trivial. Big questions I have no answers for.

Digital Key 3.0 proposes to allow entry/start authorization via Bluetooth proximity (and maybe Ultra Wideband). So this is similar to what Ford is offering now with its PaaK.

Yes, I understand the nuances of where the "key" is stored and how its protected and so forth... And yet at the same time, my Android phone (and my Android and Windows phones prior to it) have all immediately reconnected to my paired Ford vehicle every time I've started the car.

I'm guessing your experience with iPhones and reconnecting to paired vehicles has been similar?

So if the reconnection is slow or intermittent on the Mach-E, then it seems like we just need Ford to fix the bug(s) in its existing implementation in its body control module and we should be all set.

I think Ford's already stated that they're working with the Car Connectivity Consortium and Apple... but as a 2021 Mustang Mach-E owner, I don't see how this will ever have any impact on me.

 

[TheSeg]

So if I'm understanding you correctly, Digital Key 2.0 requires NFC, which in turn would require me to tap my phone to the right spot on the car to gain access (e.g. tap to the door handle or something like that). This doesn't sound very convenient. It seems almost like going back to a physical key, except now the key is a large rectangular slab of glass and plastic.

Correct, and that is the setback with NFC. The benefit is that NFC is much more reliable connection and quicker handshake. BLE has longer range, but not as reliable of establishing connection.

Digital Key 3.0 proposes to allow entry/start authorization via Bluetooth proximity (and maybe Ultra Wideband). So this is similar to what Ford is offering now with its PaaK.

Yes, and since you put it that way, I'm starting to see the logic of [hopefully] Ford waiting for 3.0 to release and implemented for that feature parity.

What I'm advocating for is the operating system to handle the handshake with the car. Remove the dependency of the application running, even in the background. Otherwise the app will spin down at inopportune times. Digital Key provides the standards to make that happen across car manufactures, phone manufactures, and operating systems.

I'm guessing your experience with iPhones and reconnecting to paired vehicles has been similar?

Not with cars, but working in experience design and immersive theatre. I've dealt with BLE and NFC enabled devices for interactivity with phones. For a project proposal, we were prepared to loan prepared iPhones running single app mode to make it all work.

 

[JellyBelly]

I had a horrifying thought. I wonder if the review phones were set in Kiosk (Single App) Mode for FordPass. I have no proof of this, it's just a theory.

This mode keeps the one app in the foreground and never closes (nor can you do anything else than the one selected app). While I don't see this as a nefarious action, it does set the environment to be more favorable than real world situations.

Dont know but would not be surprised. So we have seen at least 50 to 100 test drives from the press/video in Dec and Jan. At least some of them used Phone as Key. I remember some mentions of it. Yet no one to my recollection reported an issue with PAAK. But here we have a dozen new car deliveries with most having PAAK issues. What gives? Your suggestion makes me think that that is what occurred as it can be controlled and preverified by Ford.

 

[TheSeg]

Your suggestion makes me think that that is what occurred as it can be controlled and preverified by Ford.

I do want to be clear that I'm not assuming they did this consciously to mask issues. But I do think the valid situation of strict MDM controls of the phones created a blind spot in testing.

What horrifies me is the possibility that the testing of the feature used strict single use phones, never exposing real world phone use conditions. In most cases this wouldn't be an issue, but in this case there's a host of gotcha issues with Bluetooth that don't normally come into play.

I want to stress that I'm wearing my speculation hat with these posts and going only from my development experience (that is not auto related).

 

[eponyinIL]

That‘s been my hypothesis all along. I’m sure Ford would have rather included the frunk button on the fob, but I’m sure it would have caused even more confusion if it was there but didn’t work. A good compromise would be to give a “hobbled” fob now and the new and improved fob when the frunk button will actually work. But of course, they don’t want to say that up front in case it never happens. Or I’m just being an optimist. Either way, if a frunk button gets added, I’ll just buy another fob at that point.

I recently heard that the reason they didn't include a frunk button was a safety issue. If you have it in your pocket and accidentally hit the button for the frunk to open and you are driving on the highway at 70 miles an hour, this could be a disaster. Just a thought, and it made sense.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

I do want to be clear that I'm not assuming they did this consciously to mask issues. But I do think the valid situation of strict MDM controls of the phones created a blind spot in testing.

What horrifies me is the possibility that the testing of the feature used strict single use phones, never exposing real world phone use conditions. In most cases this wouldn't be an issue, but in this case there's a host of gotcha issues with Bluetooth that don't normally come into play.

I want to stress that I'm wearing my speculation hat with these posts and going only from my development experience (that is not auto related).

I'd expect if the phones were in kiosk mode, at least one reviewer would have noticed? Some of the reviewers were not "tech people" but plenty were.

MDM is an interesting point of possible variation, although I'd hope that Ford uses some MDM solution of some sort so their own experience would show that?

 

[macchiaz-o]

I do want to be clear that I'm not assuming they did this consciously to mask issues. But I do think the valid situation of strict MDM controls of the phones created a blind spot in testing.

What horrifies me is the possibility that the testing of the feature used strict single use phones, never exposing real world phone use conditions. In most cases this wouldn't be an issue, but in this case there's a host of gotcha issues with Bluetooth that don't normally come into play.

I want to stress that I'm wearing my speculation hat with these posts and going only from my development experience (that is not auto related).

We've seen photos and videos of Ford's employees with their own, real profiles showing up on the display screen. Meaning, they've been using their own accounts. Some of them have been driving the car for months now.

All I'm saying is, if they're encountering issues, they're hopefully raising tickets with the relevant teams, too.

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