Plug & Charge Fail and the 80% Cliff is Real

JamieGeek

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Why would I bother with that? Not only is it extra effort, the prices on a public charger are almost surely higher than my home electricity rates. It would be like stopping to buy a gallon of gas at $8 just because it's in the parking lot.

(This is assuming it's not a freebie, of course. People will suck down anything that's free, because... "free".)
You'll do it because you'll want to post the pic of you charging on plugshare ;)

Ahem: https://www.plugshare.com/location/250958
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DBC

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Write that down in your book of "I'll bet I won't do that once my BEV arrives". Let us know in a year how those predictions work out.
I don't do it now. Well there is one exception. The exception is that if I need a parking spot, and there is a "free" EV spot available, I'll take it and plug in. But this is about the spot not the charging.
 

dbsb3233

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Because they're usually free.
Their gas isn't free. Doesn't make any sense that their chargers would be.

Again, "free" anything is a whole different matter. People will line up to snag all kinds of stuff they don't need when it's free. Different issue than whether it makes sense to add 3.5 kWh at Costco vs just doing it easier and cheaper at home.
 
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quitepossibly

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Their gas isn't free. Doesn't make any sense that their chargers would be.

Again, "free" anything is a whole different matter. People will line up to snag all kinds of stuff they don't need when it's free. Different issue than whether it makes sense to add 3.5 kWh at Costco vs just doing it easier and cheaper at home.
I bet if Costco installed relatively slow 50 kW DC fast chargers and charged 80% of the usual home electrical rate, they could get a lot of people to charge and shop.

Sometimes, you're just looking for an excuse to get out of the house and saving a little bit on charging is enough to do it. Of course, I'd give up all of those savings the moment I walked into the warehouse, but that rarely accounted for in this type of mental math.
 


dbsb3233

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I bet if Costco installed relatively slow 50 kW DC fast chargers and charged 80% of the usual home electrical rate, they could get a lot of people to charge and shop.

Sometimes, you're just looking for an excuse to get out of the house and saving a little bit on charging is enough to do it. Of course, I'd give up all of those savings the moment I walked into the warehouse, but that rarely accounted for in this type of mental math.
Sure, if they priced it cheaper than already cheap residential rates, people would use it. Same concept as free.

But doubt they would want to subsidize it like that. Not much reason to.
 

GoGoGadgetMachE

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Ford will have to make a Expedition sized EV if Costco installs DC fast chargers. I won't be able to fit my Costco shopping in Ford's current range of EVs... :)
Takes at least a little while to eat a money-losing hot dog with soft drink and a sundae. ??
 

quitepossibly

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Sure, if they priced it cheaper than already cheap residential rates, people would use it. Same concept as free.

But doubt they would want to subsidize it like that. Not much reason to.
I live in California and my summer peak utility rate is actually higher than EA's Pass+ pricing and my all seasons off-peak is only about 10% less than EA's Pass+ pricing. Tesla's Supercharging rates are about the same as my off-peak rates.

I normally charge at home since it is more convenient, but if sometimes I forget to charge and I need to go somewhere far so I'll just stop by a Supercharger. It basically cost the same, but I have to spend sometime charging instead of charging at night.
 

dbsb3233

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I live in California and my summer peak utility rate is actually higher than EA's Pass+ pricing and my all seasons off-peak is only about 10% less than EA's Pass+ pricing. Tesla's Supercharging rates are about the same as my off-peak rates.

I normally charge at home since it is more convenient, but if sometimes I forget to charge and I need to go somewhere far so I'll just stop by a Supercharger. It basically cost the same, but I have to spend sometime charging instead of charging at night.
It does beg the question... Why doesn't EA set higher prices in CA if electricity costs so much more out there than the rest of the country? EA has to be paying high CA rates too for those stations.

In my location, my home rate is $0.10/kWh, round-the-clock. That's less than a third of EA's Pass+ rate. That's below the national average, but only by a little ($0.13 is the natl avg).
 

JellyBelly

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EVgo info... 1800 stations across the countty.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Plug & Charge Fail and the 80% Cliff is Real EVgo FAQ

Ford Mustang Mach-E Plug & Charge Fail and the 80% Cliff is Real EVgo FAQ
I am new to the EV thing (but learning) - what is partner roaming? Is there a partner charge company account we can use on Evgo? I saw this roaming on Ford network too and cant figure it out. For ford i can understand in network or out of network but not what roaming is
 

ajmartineau

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DCFC or any non-free public charging is kind of like buying an ice cream cone down on Main street if you can charge at home. I have a bucket of the cold stuff in my freezer @1.99/gallon but I just paid $4.50 for 1/32 of a gallon. And don't even get me started about the price of popcorn at the movies. My local cinema has L2's that I've paid to use while catching a movie, once.

I know some people don't have a place to park, but some people have a kitchen they have never used because they eat out for every meal. You do what's right for you. If you really have to struggle to find a reason to buy the MME, you are not ready, and you'll hate it.
 

dbsb3233

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I am new to the EV thing (but learning) - what is partner roaming? Is there a partner charge company account we can use on Evgo? I saw this roaming on Ford network too and cant figure it out. For ford i can understand in network or out of network but not what roaming is
https://www.evgo.com/ev-drivers/partner-roaming/

If I understand it right, it simply uses your EVgo account to pay for a charge done on a partner charger. Using that partner network's rates. Just saves you from having to set up an account at any of those partners.
 

Kamuelaflyer

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It does beg the question... Why doesn't EA set higher prices in CA if electricity costs so much more out there than the rest of the country? EA has to be paying high CA rates too for those stations.

In my location, my home rate is $0.10/kWh, round-the-clock. That's less than a third of EA's Pass+ rate. That's below the national average, but only by a little ($0.13 is the natl avg).
Interesting question about local pricing. Out in the 50th state, Greenlots is the DCFC provider. The charges reflect the cost off electricity. 51¢ per kWh off-peak (9am to 5pm) 61¢ per kWh hour otherwise. That’s a “smallish” profit. Base rate for residences is in the high 30’s or low 40’s.
 

JellyBelly

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quitepossibly

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It does beg the question... Why doesn't EA set higher prices in CA if electricity costs so much more out there than the rest of the country? EA has to be paying high CA rates too for those stations.

In my location, my home rate is $0.10/kWh, round-the-clock. That's less than a third of EA's Pass+ rate. That's below the national average, but only by a little ($0.13 is the natl avg).
Utility companies charge businesses (like Electrify America) with demand charges in additional to energy consumed. Demand charges are based on the highest amount of energy drawn during a given billing period, multiplied by a demand charge per kW. For DCFC, the highest amount of energy drawn is going to be very high.

There was an Electrify America webinar where they stated that 80-90% of their costs were due to demand charges. They cited a site in Utah where they were paying over $8 per kWh dispensed due to demand charges.

While the utility rates in California really high, electric vehicle adoption is also much higher, which means that demand charges represent a smaller percentage of the utility cost. The demand charges are pretty much fixed if anyone uses the DCFC in any given billing period. If you have a DCFC that is used once a week vs a DCFC that is used once a hour will have the same utility company demand charges since demand charges are based on the highest energy drawn.
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