Plug-in hybrids and EVs cost less to maintain and repair, finds Consumer Reports

ChasingCoral

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from https://www.greencarreports.com/new...to-maintain-and-repair-finds-consumer-reports

Plug-in hybrids and EVs cost less to maintain and repair, finds Consumer Reports
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BENGT HALVORSON SEPTEMBER 25, 2020


Electric vehicles are often sold and promoted on the basis that they’ll cost less to maintain and repair versus gasoline-powered vehicles.
In a whitepaper released Thursday, the consumer advocacy organization behind Consumer Reports, informed by CR’s reliability survey data, tested that boilerplate assumption against its real-world data, finding that electric vehicle drivers are typically saving big—an average of 50% versus equivalent gas vehicles, over the life of the vehicle.

Perhaps even more surprising among CR’s findings is that plug-in hybrids cost less to maintain and repair than conventional gasoline vehicles—actually undercutting EVs in those costs after passing 100,000 miles.


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2018 Chrysler Pacifica Hybrid

It’s an unexpected advantage because typically, plug-in hybrids are more mechanically complex than either other type of powertrain, with more potential components to break or require maintenance attention. They often, for instance, combine a conventional engine and transmission, in all of their complexity, and add a battery pack, power electronics, motors, and sometimes additional clutch packs.

Crunching its numbers for the entire vehicle fleet, but split up by powertrain type, CR found that both battery electric vehicles and plug-in hybrid vehicles cost 3 cents a mile to maintain and repair, while other internal combustion vehicles cost 6 cents per mile to maintain and repair.

That amounts to a lifetime maintenance-cost total of $4,600 for electric vehicles and plug-in hybrids, or $9,200 for traditional gasoline models. Vehicle lifetime, as defined by the analysis, was 200,000 miles.

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Maintenance and repair costs by powertrain type - Consumer Reports - Sept 2020

Consumer Reports doesn’t offer a reason for PHEVs’ advantage. Perhaps there is a sweet spot to be discussed in how the electrified components avoid wear to the traditional powertrain items—and, perhaps, extend the life of items like braking systems through regenerative braking. Or perhaps the repairs and maintenance simply cost more for EVs when needed.

This could be a continuation of a longtime trend. Some years ago, CarMD tracked that repair costs for hybrids were falling, while they were rising for other gasoline vehicles.

CR notes that its sample size of PHEVs and EVs with more than 100,000 miles was small—with the EVs mostly including early versions of the Nissan Leaf and Tesla Model S. With a total of 200 PHEV vehicles that have more than 100,000 miles, it also likely didn’t have a sample set that represented all the different layouts for these widely varied vehicles.

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2019 Nissan Leaf Plus - Driven, March 2019

The data is based on annual surveys from hundreds of thousands of vehicle owners about real-world reliability and costs.

The organization notes that it filtered out responses that were incomplete, as well as feedback on outlier vehicles—ones that traveled less than 2,000 miles or more than 60,000 in a year, and vehicles that reported more than $20,000 in maintenance costs in the past year.

It also accounted for any bias based on the brands of vehicles purchased by CR members versus those purchased by the public at large, by reweighting its results according to market-share data from Wards Intelligence.
 

GoGoGadgetMachE

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dbsb3233

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Cool. Gotta treat this as "preliminary data" with so few aged BEVs and PHEVs to measure, but promising. Especially PHEV.

Could play right into Ford's hands too, as their mid-term strategy appears to be more PHEV than BEV. Sure solves the biggest obstacle for consumers.
 

GoGoGadgetMachE

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Cool. Gotta treat this as "preliminary data" with so few aged BEVs and PHEVs to measure, but promising. Especially PHEV.

Could play right into Ford's hands too, as their mid-term strategy appears to be more PHEV than BEV. Sure solves the biggest obstacle for consumers.
Many consumers love PHEVs because they are magic for them. Zero range anxiety (except self-imposed, if they care to do so; I've never had it in 7 years, but others on here insist that everyone but me has it), better mileage than straight ICE, full tax credit still for many manufacturers, they have normal controls they are used to without having to learn anything new, other people can drive it in a pinch (again because normal controls and normal refueling)... yes, PHEVs are absolutely a compromise, but they are for many people an ideal compromise. It was for me in 2013, and it's partially why I'm likely going to keep mine even after my MME is here.
 

dbsb3233

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Many consumers love PHEVs because they are magic for them. Zero range anxiety (except self-imposed, if they care to do so; I've never had it in 7 years, but others on here insist that everyone but me has it), better mileage than straight ICE, full tax credit still for many manufacturers, they have normal controls they are used to without having to learn anything new, other people can drive it in a pinch (again because normal controls and normal refueling)... yes, PHEVs are absolutely a compromise, but they are for many people an ideal compromise. It was for me in 2013, and it's partially why I'm likely going to keep mine even after my MME is here.
Yep. If we weren't also keeping an Escape (ICE) in our garage to pair with the Mach-E, I wouldn't be buying a BEV. But since we have both, it's sort of the equivalent of PHEV functionality, except the best version of each (a pure BEV + a pure ICE). We'll just usually drive the one that fits that drive need (usually the BEV around home, usually the ICE for distance).

But if we only had one car for the household, it would probably be a PHEV.
 


GoGoGadgetMachE

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But if we only had one car for the household, it would probably be a PHEV.
in my case, the fact I love my Fusion probably figured into this. If it was literally any other car I've owned in the past except maybe my Sport Trac or my '95 GT Convertible/fanboat, it would be trade-in city.

I admit I'm still going to see what the numbers say with and without a trade-in and that will factor into my decision, partially because if I think I truly need a gas vehicle for a particular trip, I can always rent one, just like I sometimes rent "big box store pickup truck" today. (I can even rent a Tesla easily enough if it's "range anxiety" I'm worried about, I suppose.)
 

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As a hybrid owner myself, this confuses me. Saving on break pads, etc is obvious. But, a hybrid is more complex than either an ICE or BEV. So how could it be cheaper to repair than either?

I suppose this isn't really a report on failure rate either, although I would assume that is higher too.
 

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As a hybrid owner myself, this confuses me. Saving on break pads, etc is obvious. But, a hybrid is more complex than either an ICE or BEV. So how could it be cheaper to repair than either?

I suppose this isn't really a report on failure rate either, although I would assume that is higher too.
I was trying to figure that out too. Maybe because most of the miles go on electric (daily commute) so the ICE only has maybe one third the use?

Battery replacement would be far less than the BEV too.
 

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As a hybrid owner myself, this confuses me. Saving on break pads, etc is obvious. But, a hybrid is more complex than either an ICE or BEV. So how could it be cheaper to repair than either?

I suppose this isn't really a report on failure rate either, although I would assume that is higher too.
A mild hybrid would likely have about the same maintenance costs as an ICE. The article here is for plug ins. A PHEV can have MUCH less engine use compared to a mild hybrid. I doubt the engine in my wife's C-Max Energi comes on more than once or twice a month for maybe 15 or 20 minutes of total run time. It gets used so infrequently that the "change engine oil" message hasn't illuminated since Feb of 2019. I changed the oil in Feb 2020 just because it was 12 months old....came out looking clean and new still.

The most common system failures are emissions controls on the engine and transmission issues. I don't know what transmission is in the C-Max hybrid but the HF35 in the Energi is a fantastic design. Very few parts, no friction surfaces (except for bearings...). A fully automatic transmission that is continuously variable, with no torque converter, bands or clutches. Absolutely amazing. Almost nothing to fail in those things except for maybe a seal or a small pump.

The engine emissions will have much less opportunity to fail because the engine doesn't get used that much in a PHEV.

All we have ever had to fix in our 2015 C-Max or 2017 Focus Electric are new tires in both cars, a 12v battery in the C-Max and the AC Valve for the HVB in the Focus. That last one was covered under warranty.....not something that requires regular maintenance.
 

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A mild hybrid would likely have about the same maintenance costs as an ICE. The article here is for plug ins. A PHEV can have MUCH less engine use compared to a mild hybrid. I doubt the engine in my wife's C-Max Energi comes on more than once or twice a month for maybe 15 or 20 minutes of total run time. It gets used so infrequently that the "change engine oil" message hasn't illuminated since Feb of 2019. I changed the oil in Feb 2020 just because it was 12 months old....came out looking clean and new still.
You're right. I wasn't thinking Plugin Hybrid.
The most common system failures are emissions controls on the engine and transmission issues. I don't know what transmission is in the C-Max hybrid but the HF35 in the Energi is a fantastic design. Very few parts, no friction surfaces (except for bearings...). A fully automatic transmission that is continuously variable, with no torque converter, bands or clutches. Absolutely amazing. Almost nothing to fail in those things except for maybe a seal or a small pump.
I used to know this, but I want to say the transmissions are the same or at least very similar between the two.
 

GoGoGadgetMachE

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The most common system failures are emissions controls on the engine and transmission issues. I don't know what transmission is in the C-Max hybrid but the HF35 in the Energi is a fantastic design. Very few parts, no friction surfaces (except for bearings...). A fully automatic transmission that is continuously variable, with no torque converter, bands or clutches. Absolutely amazing. Almost nothing to fail in those things except for maybe a seal or a small pump.
I didn't have my 2011 Fusion Hybrid long enough to really say, but both my Honda hybrids had their CVTs start to go to hell at about 50K. I'm amazed one made it to 125K+ because towards the end it felt like it was going to drop out at any time. The 2013 Fusion Energi transmission has held up well but it's not even at 50K yet so... my point is, this is something I was very worried about after my Honda experiences but so far, Ford seems to be doing a better job. ?‍♀
 

SnBGC

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I didn't have my 2011 Fusion Hybrid long enough to really say, but both my Honda hybrids had their CVTs start to go to hell at about 50K. I'm amazed one made it to 125K+ because towards the end it felt like it was going to drop out at any time. The 2013 Fusion Energi transmission has held up well but it's not even at 50K yet so... my point is, this is something I was very worried about after my Honda experiences but so far, Ford seems to be doing a better job. ?‍♀
Sleep well. The transmission in your Energi should last the life of the vehicle without too much difficulty. It is actually a Power Split Device that functions like a transmission. Very very different than a traditional CVT type. If you want to learn more Bout how they work then check out the Weber Auto YouTube channel. They do a very good job explaining how it works. Even my wife sat down and watched it because she found it fascinating. She enjoys her car more now that she knows how unique it is.

Toyota and Chrysler use the same type with only a few minor differences.
 

GoGoGadgetMachE

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Sleep well. The transmission in your Energi should last the life of the vehicle without too much difficulty. It is actually a Power Split Device that functions like a transmission. Very very different than a traditional CVT type. If you want to learn more Bout how they work then check out the Weber Auto YouTube channel. They do a very good job explaining how it works. Even my wife sat down and watched it because she found it fascinating. She enjoys her car more now that she knows how unique it is.

Toyota and Chrysler use the same type with only a few minor differences.
this one? Ford Hybrid Transaxle Generations - (Toyota Prius P610, Chrysler Pacifica SI-EVT) - YouTube
 

SnBGC

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Sleep well. The transmission in your Energi should last the life of the vehicle without too much difficulty. It is actually a Power Split Device that functions like a transmission. Very very different than a traditional CVT type. If you want to learn more Bout how they work then check out the Weber Auto YouTube channel. They do a very good job explaining how it works. Even my wife sat down and watched it because she found it fascinating. She enjoys her car more now that she knows how unique it is.

Toyota and Chrysler use the same type with only a few minor differences.
My 2013 C-max Hybrid is at 90k miles without problems.
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