Preparing for Mach-E charging at home - preparation and installing charger

[Sweetwater]

Great info. As he stated the difference between Hot and Neutral is the way it works.

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[Illinibird]

Does anyone know how a GFCI breaker works ?

Not really but they’re EXPENSIVE! I saw one and the neutral wire came out of the breaker. Don’t know if this is different than a non-GFCI breaker or not.

 

[Sweetwater]

Not really but they’re EXPENSIVE! I saw one and the neutral wire came out of the breaker. Don’t know if this is different than a non-GFCI breaker or not.

Your OK just learn from us. We all must stick together.
But all and all said GFCI not required UNLESS you have a
neutral in that circuit.

 

[Illinibird]

Your OK just learn from us. We all must stick together.
But all and all said GFCI not required UNLESS you have a
neutral in that circuit.

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[Illinibird]

Suppose one installed a PLUG-IN wall charger with it's own GFCI. Would the non-GFCI breaker circuit be "legal" with charger plugged-in and not when not? Could be a knotty issue.

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[ClaudeMach-E]

I'm still doubtful that the Ford Mobile Charger will do anything other than 8A at 120V, but the wording we've seen is vague (like so much else), so hard to say for sure. Guess we'll find out in a few months.

I'm assuming from what was published that the Ford mobile charger will be able to output between 8A to 32A. I'm assuming knowing what we see from Tesla's video that the MME will be able to set a desire Amp input to the car wheter from the Ford app or the car itself. So I'm assuming that if plug on to an (only)outlet on a 20 Amp circuit you will be able to set between 8A and 16A, 12A max on a 15 Amp circuit (only) outlet. I'm assuming if the charger is plug on a 14-50 outlet on 240V with at least a 40 Amp circuit it will be able to be set to the full scale capacity of the charger which is between 8A to 32A. Remember that there's no switch of any kind on the charger itself so you must be able to set the output you want from somewhere.

 

[methorian]

I'm assuming from what was published that the Ford mobile charger will be able to output between 8A to 32A. I'm assuming knowing what we see from Tesla's video that the MME will be able to set a desire Amp input to the car wheter from the Ford app or the car itself. So I'm assuming that if plug on to an (only)outlet on a 20 Amp circuit you will be able to set between 8A and 16A, 12A max on a 15 Amp circuit (only) outlet. I'm assuming if the charger is plug on a 14-50 outlet on 240V with at least a 40 Amp circuit it will be able to be set to the full scale capacity of the charger which is between 8A to 32A. Remember that there's no switch of any kind on the charger itself so you must be able to set the output you want from somewhere.

I don't think you'll have configurable amperage options while using the 14-50 plug. It will assume that since you're using a 50A plug you have a full 50A available (I don't know why you'd have a 14-50 receptacle on a circuit less than 50A anyways?). The spec sheet even mentioned that the 14-50 plug requires a 50A breaker.

 

[ClaudeMach-E]

I don't think you'll have configurable amperage options while using the 14-50 plug. It will assume that since you're using a 50A plug you have a full 50A available (I don't know why you'd have a 14-50 receptacle on a circuit less than 50A anyways?). The spec sheet even mentioned that the 14-50 plug requires a 50A breaker.

Isn't it up to 50A max, but anyway if you plug the Ford Mobile 32A charger onto a 50A circuit what I'm assuming remains the same. And why wouldn't it be configurable like on a Tesla?

 

[eltonlin]

I don't think you'll have configurable amperage options while using the 14-50 plug. It will assume that since you're using a 50A plug you have a full 50A available (I don't know why you'd have a 14-50 receptacle on a circuit less than 50A anyways?). The spec sheet even mentioned that the 14-50 plug requires a 50A breaker.

you can use a 14-50 with a 40 or 50A breaker. My neighbor uses 40A because of panel capacity... but I do agree that if you have the space, 50A is the way to go.

 

[methorian]

you can use a 14-50 with a 40 or 50A breaker. My neighbor uses 40A because of panel capacity... but I do agree that if you have the space, 50A is the way to go.

Yea - I guess having a smaller rated breaker isn't a huge deal as it'd just trip the breaker if you tried to pull too much.

 

[ClaudeMach-E]

Yea - I guess having a smaller rated breaker isn't a huge deal as it'd just trip the breaker if you tried to pull too much.

Exactly we assume tha people knows what their max capacity is and their not tryng to go over that. And has you say the breaker will do it's job.

 

[machefan]

As others said, that's not an option. One possibility (depending on your usage) is just to charge at 120V, but it's slow. The included charger appears to be 8A at 120V, adding about 3 miles per hour. But if you have an unused 20A circuit to the garage, you could get a 16A 120V charger to add about 6 miles per hour, if that were enough for your needs. But it's rare to have a totally unused 20A circuit. Couldn't be shared concurrently while charging. Although there might be an automated switch available, and the garage door opener often has a dedicated circuit.

Kinda of a last resort option, but a consideration if no other good choices.

Slight correction, a level 2 charger is 240V and not 120V. Only Level 1 is 120V ~13 AMPS (1.4kw), Level 2 is 16 AMPS at 240V (3.8kw) Level 2 can also support 32 AMPS at 240V (7.2 kw) which typically you see as the NEMA 14-50 Plug or hard wired. There are chargers that go above 32 AMPS, but those are the ones that the DIY folks really need to pay attention to for higher amperage wiring especially when going above 40 AMPS. If staying 40 or less, then 6/3 and a 50 AMP breaker either GFCI or not deepening on local code would be fine. I have a 40 AMP breaker right now in my panel but if I was to upgrade to a larger plug-in type charger I will install the GFCI breaker to future proof it (code). I also use my NEMA 14-50 garage outlet today with a pig tail down to 20 AMP 240 for slower 3.8w charing to increase the LEAF's battery life. I have two chargers in my garage, one LEVEL 1 and one LEVEL 2 3.8kw (16 AMPS) which is also a 7.2kw charger (32 AMPS). I charge faster only when needed and slower when not. The Nissan Leaf is where you must baby the battery if you want it to stay healthy. The Nissan came with a 50 AMP pig tail, you remove it for 120 V support, the other EV charger is 120 and 240, also changed by a pig tail. So long story short, I can support all 3 types of charing. I just have to figure out how badly I might need the 40 AMP charger for even faster charing. My guess, no I do not and will save the funds for some cool MACH-E swag.

 

[dbsb3233]

I'm assuming from what was published that the Ford mobile charger will be able to output between 8A to 32A.

Oh absolutely. My take is just that anything above 8A is on 240V, based on Ford saying 120V only adds 3 miles per hour. If it could do better than that at 120V, I'd think they'd have said "up to 6 miles at 120V", as marketing nearly always tries to upsell rather than downsell. I'm betting that 120V is fixed at 8A delivered from the charger.

But that's just my take. I may be wrong. All we can do is speculate about the vague wording until it actually comes out.

 

[dbsb3233]

Slight correction, a level 2 charger is 240V and not 120V.

The included Ford Mobile Charger is both a Level 1 (120V) and Level 2 (240V) though, so it'll do both. Articles have said the charger with the 120V pigtail charges at 8A, and Ford publishes miles added commensurate with that. Although some think it might be able to go higher on 120V.

 

[CHeil402]

Not really but they’re EXPENSIVE! I saw one and the neutral wire came out of the breaker. Don’t know if this is different than a non-GFCI breaker or not.

Electrical engineer here. There's a lot of discussion going on here about 240 V install and GFCI. Thought I'd throw my $0.02 in for reference. The typical residential service coming into your house from your utility in the USA is 240 V (kind of). There are three wires: Neutral, +120 V and -120V. If you look inside your breaker box, there is a 'zig zagged' set of buss bars that are interleaved that your breakers connect to. One is connected to +120 V and one is connected to -120 V. When you install a single width breaker, you're making a 120 V circuit. You're connect one wire (hot / black) to EITHER +120 V OR -120 V and the other wire to neutral which is 0 V (neutral / white). You the run this to your outlet and the voltage you get is the difference between +/- 120 V and 0 V (either results in 120 V).

Now when you want a 240 V outlet, you use a double-wide breaker. This is the reason the buss bars are zig-zagged because the double breaker connects one side to a +120 V and the other to -120 V. Then you run this to the outlet with black/red to the +/- 120 V connection. You don't need the neutral in this case... BUT some outlets bring it out (white wire) as is done in a NEMA 14-50 outlet. Then the thing you plug in uses the difference between +120 V and -120 V and you get 240 V! If the end device also wants 120 V, then it can use the neutral. This is what something like an electric dryer does for the lower power electronics... it uses 240 V for the heating element and 120 V for the control electronics and lights.

The circuit breaker is there to protect your wires from catching on fire in the event of a short circuit. It is NOT there to protect you from being electrocuted for two reasons. Your hand might not draw enough current to trip the breaker but still get a potentially lethal shock. And because a circuit breaker trips much too slowly to protect you even if it does trip. That's where a GFCI comes in. It is a Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter. They are designed to protect YOU not the wires. They work by measuring the difference between what goes out one end and comes back in the other. Under normal circumstances, all of what goes out one side comes back the other. If there is an imbalance, it must be going somewhere else (like into you). That's why they're required in places where there is a potential shock hazard (kitchen and bathroom). As soon as it detects an imbalance measured in milliamps, it trips.

This comes to the point of needing one or not for a car charger. A charger that doesn't include a built-in GFCI will ask for one to be installed, like the Ford Mobile Charger. One that does have one built in will ask you to not to install one, like the hardwired Ford charger. However, if you don't have a GFCI breaker, then you're only protected from the point where the GFCI is to the end, so in the example of a hard wired charger, you're only protected in the connector of the charger, if you touched the wiring to it, you'd get shocked unprotected. It would be smart to include a GFCI breaker if you have an outlet that you're plugging/unplugging repeatedly as the GFCI breaker will protect you at the plug, so if when you're unplugging it, it won't shock you if you touch the prongs of the plug.

Now you might think, why don't we always just use a GFCI breaker then? Well the way a GFCI protected EV charger works is that it first verifies that the ground connection is working by sending some current through there... which if you had a downstream GFCI breaker, would be detected as a ground fault and cause a nuisance trip. So this can result in a lot of nuisance trips.

I'm happy to entertain questions, but I want to emphasize that this is all the more reason why you shouldn't be doing this if you're not comfortable or knowledgeable about this. I didn't even list all of the things to consider like wire and conduit sizing.

EDIT: For reference, here's a great video explaining the 240 V panel:

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