Prepping for a new coat of ceramic spray

RMoore

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It's been about 10 months since I first applied two coats of Hybrid Solutions Ceramic spray to my MME. It's lasted pretty well but I can tell that it's wearing off and that it's time to reapply. But I'm not sure if I can just give the car a good wash and reapply or if I need to do anything additional to remove any ceramic that might still be there. Since it's the same product, can I just coat over what's there? Any suggestions from you gurus out there?
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Wash with a detergent, like Dawn, to remove remaining coating. I would suggest a bug/tar remover, if needed, then clay bar and iron remover. Then check out the clear coat for scratches. If the clear coat needs restoration or has scratches, then you will need to consider light compounding. If not - move on to the spray.
 

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It's been about 10 months since I first applied two coats of Hybrid Solutions Ceramic spray to my MME. It's lasted pretty well but I can tell that it's wearing off and that it's time to reapply. But I'm not sure if I can just give the car a good wash and reapply or if I need to do anything additional to remove any ceramic that might still be there. Since it's the same product, can I just coat over what's there? Any suggestions from you gurus out there?
Hello, my friend.

The answer to your question really depends on the condition of the paint. If you typically wash your car on a weekly basis and keep it in a garage, there is a good chance the paint is in pretty decent shape and you probably don't need to do too much. But if it is kept outside, isn't washed that often, and the paint is really dirty and contaminated, then you need to do more.

At a minimum, I would wash your car using a car soap that is a bit stronger than your normal, pH neutral car soap. Car soaps that say they are "safe for waxes and sealants" are usually pH neutral and therefore are not as strong in their cleaning abilities. I would, at a minimum, wash your car using a soap that is formulated for extra cleaning before applying a wax or sealant. For example, Mckees37 Coating Prep Auto Wash has "alkaline detergents" (i.e. higher pH) that clean more thoroughly.

Another option is to put a couple of ounces of a higher pH All Purpose Cleaner, such as Optimum PowerClean into your normal soap solution.

Higher pH soaps will clean dirt and grime really well. But if your car has a lot of mineral deposits or water spots, then you would actually want to use a slightly acidic (i.e. lower pH) wash to clean these types of contaminants.

I have a friend that does a two-step wash before applying sealants or ceramic coatings. First, he washes using Carpro Lift (a higher pH, alkaline wash). Then he washes again using Carpro Descale (a slightly acidic, lower pH wash).

If you want to keep it simple and your paint is in good condition, you could simply wash your car with your normal soap and reapply the Turtle Wax Ceramic Spray Sealant.

But if your paint is dirty and contaminated, I would do the following in this order:
1) Wash with a stronger, higher pH / alkaline car soap.
2) Wash with a slightly acidic, lower pH car soap (but only if the car has a lot of mineral deposits and water spots).
3) Apply an iron remover (only if necessary)
4) Clay bar with lots of clay lubricant (only if necessary)
5) You could wipe down the paint with an IPA wipe, such as Carpro Eraser, if you want to make sure it is squeaky clean.
6) Apply the ceramic spray sealant

One last point about using a clay bar. You only want to clay the paint if it actually needs it. To test, put your hand in a plastic baggie and run your fingers over the paint. If you feel little bumps, this means the surface has contaminants and needs to be clayed. But if the surface feels smooth under your baggie-covered fingers, then it is contaminant free and no need to clay.

Even with a lot of lube, using a clay bar runs the risk of marring your paint. If you mar the paint, you then have to polish it to get it rid of the marring. So only clay if necessary.

Hope that helps.
Joe
 
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RickMachE

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o_O

Wash.
Dry.
Nu Finish.
Collinite 845.

Repeat all steps but Nu Finish every 6 months.
 
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Hello, my friend.

The answer to your question really depends on the condition of the paint. If you typically wash your car on a weekly basis and keep it in a garage, there is a good chance the paint is in pretty decent shape and you probably don't need to do too much. But if it is kept outside, isn't washed that often, and the paint is really dirty and contaminated, then you need to do more.

At a minimum, I would wash your car using a car soap that is a bit stronger than your normal, pH neutral car soap. Car soaps that say they are "safe for waxes and sealants" are usually pH neutral and therefore are not as strong in their cleaning abilities. I would, at a minimum, wash your car using a soap that is formulated for extra cleaning before applying a wax or sealant. For example, Mckees37 Coating Prep Auto Wash has "alkaline detergents" (i.e. higher pH) that clean more thoroughly.

Another option is to put a couple of ounces of a higher pH All Purpose Cleaner, such as Optimum PowerClean into your normal soap solution.

Higher pH soaps will clean dirty and grime really well. But if your car has a lot of mineral deposits or water spots, then you would actually want to use a slightly acidic (i.e. lower pH) wash to clean these types of contaminants.

I have a friend that does a two-step wash before applying sealants or ceramic coatings. First, he washes using Carpro Lift (a higher pH, alkaline wash). Then he washes again using Carpro Descale (a slightly acidic, lower pH wash).

If you want to keep it simple and your paint is in good condition, you could simply wash your car with your normal soap and reapply the Turtle Wax Ceramic Spray Sealant.

But if your paint is dirty and contaminated, I would do the following in this order:
1) Wash with a stronger, higher pH / alkaline car soap.
2) Wash with a slightly acidic, lower pH car soap (but only if the car has a lot of mineral deposits and water spots).
3) Apply an iron remover (but only if necessary)
4) Clay bar with lots of clay lubricant (but only if necessary)
5) You could wipe down the paint with an IPA wipe, such as Carpro Eraser, if you want to make sure it is squeaky clean.
6) Apply the ceramic spray sealant

One last point about using a clay bar. You only want to clay the paint if it actually needs it. To test, put your hand in a plastic baggie and run your fingers over the paint. If you feel little bumps, this means the surface has contaminants and needs to be clayed. But if the surface feels smooth under your baggie-covered fingers, then it is contaminant free and no need to clay.

Even with a lot of lube, using a clay bar runs the risk of marring your paint. If you mar the paint, you then have to polish it to get it rid of the marring. So only clay if necessary.

Hope that helps.
Joe
Thanks Joe. As always, very helpful. I keep the car garaged and have been pretty good about keeping it clean with occasional soap washes (Maguair G7148 Gold Class) or spraying with diluted ONR and wiping down. So maybe I'm fine with washing and reapplying the ceramic. I'll try your baggie test to see if it needs any clay bar (I got one of the clay mitts you recommended) though guessing it will be ok without it. Next time I might try your favorite ceramic (Gyeon Cancoat Evo) but the Hybrid Solutions has worked well so far and I have a lot left :) .
 


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Excellent write up by @joebruin77 there. I would add that I only claybar when I plan to polish anyway. No matter how much lubricant spray I use it seems to very lightly scuff the paint. So for me, clay bar the a finishing compound on the dual action polisher. Then IPA. Then ceramic of choice.
I have to redo the wife’s car soon and will be looking at the soaps Joe recommended.
 
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RMoore

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I'm guessing I shouldn't use one of the sprays I usually use after the post wash rinsing to help the water flow off. So this time just wash and dry, then apply the ceramic.
 

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It's been about 10 months since I first applied two coats of Hybrid Solutions Ceramic spray to my MME. It's lasted pretty well but I can tell that it's wearing off and that it's time to reapply. But I'm not sure if I can just give the car a good wash and reapply or if I need to do anything additional to remove any ceramic that might still be there. Since it's the same product, can I just coat over what's there? Any suggestions from you gurus out there?
Wash with a wash only like Turtle. You do not want to strip the old ceramic. Says so in the instructions. I reapply last week after 6 months. Wash the car, leave it wet, spray maybe 2-3 for a door or 4-5 for the hood. Rinse it off in a way that spreads the spray. Dry with a microfiber cloth and then buff with a dry microfiber. It was dazzling.
 
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RMoore

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Wash with a wash only like Turtle. You do not want to strip the old ceramic. Says so in the instructions. I reapply last week after 6 months. Wash the car, leave it wet, spray maybe 2-3 for a door or 4-5 for the hood. Rinse it off in a way that spreads the spray. Dry with a microfiber cloth and then buff with a dry microfiber. It was dazzling.
I didn't see that in the instructions on the Turtle Wax website (pasted below). They say to apply to a dry car. They also don't say anything about whether you need to remove any old ceramic. Is it possible you are thinking of the Ceramic Wet Wax, which is a different product? I use that sometimes after washing to help wipe down since it helps the water run off and adds some shine and a bit of protection, though I've started using their Pro Graphene Flex Wax which I think is maybe a notch better.

STEP 1
Wash and dry the car
STEP 2
This product does not require surface prep before use; however, we recommend applying a clay bar to your finish to remove stains from the finish, such as those created by tar, bug residue or bird droppings, for the best product results.
STEP 3
Shake container and spray two mists of product in a 2’ x 2’ section.
STEP 4
Using a microfiber towel, wipe the spray coating into the finish.
STEP 5
Flip the cloth to a clean, dry side and buff to a mirror-like shine.
STEP 6
Move to the next 2’ x 2’ panel and repeat around the car.
STEP 7
For maximum protection and an even higher shine, allow Ceramic Spray Coating to cure for 24 hours before applying a second coating to your car exterior, repeating steps 2-6.
 

joebruin77

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I'm guessing I shouldn't use one of the sprays I usually use after the post wash rinsing to help the water flow off. So this time just wash and dry, then apply the ceramic.
Because the ceramic spray will adhere best to clean, bare paint, you do not want to use a drying aid that will leave anything behind on the paint, such as waxes, sealants, or gloss enhancers.

Some people might suggest you just dry the car without a drying aid. But personally I think the lubrication provided by a drying aid helps to reduce the chances of inducing small swirls and scratches.

I am guessing you could probably use the same Turtle Wax Ceramic Sealant you plan to apply to the dry paint as a drying aid, although I have not personally tried this product as a drying aid. The other option would be to use a rinseless wash that does not contain any waxes as a drying aid, such as Optimum No Rinse or Mckees37 N-914. You can dilute some ONR at the detailer dilution ration of 16 to 1 and use this as a drying aid.
 
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RMoore

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Because the ceramic spray will adhere best to clean, bare paint, you do not want to use a drying aid that will leave anything behind on the paint, such as waxes, sealants, or gloss enhancers.

Some people might suggest you just dry the car without a drying aid. But personally I think the lubrication provided by a drying aid helps to reduce the chances of inducing small swirls and scratches.

I am guessing you could probably use the same Turtle Wax Ceramic Sealant you plan to apply to the dry paint as a drying aid, although I have not personally tried this product as a drying aid. The other option would be to use a rinseless wash that does not contain any waxes as a drying aid, such as Optimum No Rinse or Mckees37 N-914. You can dilute some ONR at the detailer dilution ration of 16 to 1 and use this as a drying aid.
I ended up just drying with a good microfiber. I washed the car in the sun and noticed several areas with water spots. I have Ice Blue Silver so it is not as evident as a darker color but I did notice it. I had wondered about using some dilute ONR as a drying aid as you suggested, or even to try to remove the water spots but ended up just using the wet microfiber and rubbing a bit. I also found that when I applied the ceramic I was able to rub out most of the spots so I think it came out ok, though I imagine that's not the ideal approach. But good to know that ONR doesn't leave a film--I wasn't sure about that. I will likely apply a second coat of ceramic tomorrow to allow time to cure per the instructions. If the car gets dusty it sounds like I can spray some ONR and wipe, then reapply ceramic?
 

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If the car gets dusty it sounds like I can spray some ONR and wipe, then reapply ceramic?
That's a good question. I know the instructions for the Turtle Wax HS Ceramic Spray say to wait 24 hours if you are applying a second coat. So the question is, how to remove any light dust that may be on the car before the second application.

I would consider two options to get rid of the light dust. One, doing a rinseless or waterless wash using ONR. Two, I wonder if using the TW HS Ceramic Detailer might be a good option here. Even though the ceramic detailer contains some ceramic protection, because it is made by the same manufacturer and is in the same line of products, there is a chance the two might work well together.

You could email Turtle Wax customer service and ask them, given that their own instructions say to wait 24 hours between applications of the ceramic sealant, what do they recommend to use to clean up any dust before doing the second application.
 
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RMoore

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That's a good question. I know the instructions for the Turtle Wax HS Ceramic Spray say to wait 24 hours if you are applying a second coat. So the question is, how to remove any light dust that may be on the car before the second application.

I would consider two options to get rid of the light dust. One, doing a rinseless or waterless wash using ONR. Two, I wonder if using the TW HS Ceramic Detailer might be a good option here. Even though the ceramic detailer contains some ceramic protection, because it is made by the same manufacturer and is in the same line of products, there is a chance the two might work well together.

You could email Turtle Wax customer service and ask them, given that their own instructions say to wait 24 hours between applications of the ceramic sealant, what do they recommend to use to clean up any dust before doing the second application.
I didn't need to use my car since the first coat and it's been in the garage so a light wipe should be fine before applying the second coat. I did email Turtle Wax CS so let's see what they say if one needs more prep between coats. When you use the Gyeon ceramic, do you apply two coats?
 

joebruin77

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When you use the Gyeon ceramic, do you apply two coats?
You really don't need to apply two coats of Gyeon Cancoat Evo. But if you apply it outside and there is a chance of any rain or dew landing on the coating within the first 24 hours, Gyeon recommends applying a coat of Gyeon Cure 1 hour after applying the Cancoat to protect it from water spots.
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