Prospective Buyer without ability to charge at home

dtbaker61

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Also I'm a bit confused by the EPA's kWh/100 miles. If I calculate based on a 88kWh battery and 305 mile range, that works out to be 28.8 kWh/100 miles. But the EPA says 33kWh/100 miles. So if the EPA's 33 is right, then my mpge figures should go up by around 15%.
there are significant losses between charge energy pulled from the outlet, and miles you get on the road.
- charger inversion loss between plug and HV battery,
- internal loss in HV charge/discharge from internal resistance
- inversion loss between HV battery and AC motors,
- variable loss for heating/cooling/lights

The EPA number trying to capture average actual miles taking into account ALL losses under 'average use' and some mix of stop/go and highway miles.

.... 'your milage may vary' is perfectly reasonable. ;)

The cost of energy per kWhr at the plug is fixed though.... charge stations are typically 2x-3x more expensive per kWhr than what you pay at home, particularly if you live in an area with 'off-peak' rates and you can time your charging to happen off-peak.
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jrstinkfish

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if your daily round trip is only about 30 miles.... you *could* charge overnight via L1 from a 120vAC outlet.
This is what I have done for the past 3+ years. Home L2 charging, for me at least, is completely unnecessary. When I would commute to work (and as I will be doing again starting September, booo!!), the overnight charge once I got home almost replenished what I spent on my commute, and the weekends are for topping off if for some reason I use more. For a one-EV household, L1 is fine for most people.
 

2Ponies

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You do not mention charging at work? More and more employers are adding charging stations. Check with your employer, then the charging at home would not be an issue.
 

dtbaker61

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This is what I have done for the past 3+ years. Home L2 charging, for me at least, is completely unnecessary. When I would commute to work (and as I will be doing again starting September, booo!!), the overnight charge once I got home almost replenished what I spent on my commute, and the weekends are for topping off if for some reason I use more. For a one-EV household, L1 is fine for most people.
exactly
I've been charging my (DIY conversion EVs) on L1 since 2008 for my around town use while I used an ICE car for trips. I only recently added a NEMA 14-50 outlet in my garage since I sold my ICE car after getting the MME and occasionally make longer day trips back to back now.
 

Ma9573

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We should all add, it depends, to anything we say.

I live in California. Despite the really bad youtube "here's my Tesla TCO for 3 years" videos, an EV isn't cheaper here. Those videos always forget that insurance is twice an ICE vehicle for a Tesla (MME's are more normal), that they burn through tires, they're more expensive to buy (in many, but not all cases) and god help you if you have a major failure outside of warranty.

Electricity also isn't much cheaper here, because does PGE, ever, do a good thing? Unless you get solar (and I think PGE wants to lower the tax credits) or go on an EV plan which increases your rates during prime time. If you live in a place with rates of $.09/KWH then good for you.

And those tax credits, well, they just add $7,500 to the price of most EV's at the expense of more TTL. Often the markup for the vehicles is more than the credit, "hi RAV4 PRIME".

I would buy an EV because they're fast and/or fun, you want to help with CO2, you can charge at home or at work so it's convenient and you don't travel so much that rolling up to an EA charger that doesn't work doesn't bother you. If you have the right rates, and the right situation, it can also be cheaper to own, maybe significantly so.

I'm not trying to pick a fight here. I've run the numbers for my situation it all pencils out about the same depending on the vehicle.
Yeah, it definitely depends where you live. But I do think a caveat is needed regarding PG&E.
The $1500 Clean Vehicle rebate off the top (Point of Sale) replaces the old $800 PG&E mail in rebate to help offset charging costs. Electric vehicles are way cheaper to run than comparable ICE in California if you factor that in. It's basically like getting 375 gallons of $4 gas for free.

The FED $7500 credit and $2000 CA State rebate are more to offset the higher vehicle costs and registration fees. Or at least that's how I look at it. BEVs are still more expensive, but that $9500 did get my effective cost of my Route 1 down to $45k after taxes and destination with X-Plan (less if you add in $2500 options and the $1500 POS credit). Not bad for such an awesome car IMO.

I didn't mention that though since the OP is in New England and I have no idea if the electric companies there do anything similar.
 


praxiscat

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We live next to Chargepoint HQ and their chargers at their HQ cost 25 cents per kWH. EA with their 4 dollar a month membership plan costs 31 cents per kWH. Most other chargepoint stations in our area cost 30 cents or more per kWH.

So assuming we charged every day at ChargePoint HQ our cost for charging to full would be $22 dollars or $7.33 per 100 miles. Gas is 3.89 a gallon so that works out to 53 mpg. If we charged at EA with their 4 dollar a month membership it works out to be 43mpg. But those are the cheapest options. The plug closest to my house costs 41 cents per kWH minimum.
I am paying 12 cents a kWh from a level 2 chargepoint charger here in DC and MD So I don't know where you are pulling out prices 2-3 times the amount of what I pay. Again...it really does depend where you live and your circumstances. Again an at home charger is not as necessary as some on this forum think it is.

Now mind you fast charging is more expensive. But around where I live level 2 is easy to find and either very cheap or free. It sounds like the OP is in a similar scenario. Where they can potentially use both.
 

lakersfan

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Let me be clear on this. It's not only fully possible, but rather easy to have a BEV if you live in an area with robust public charging like the OP. You do not need at home charging. The people who are saying you need at home charging have absolutely no idea what they are talking about, and no experience owning a BEV in an area with robust public charging. I actually have this experience. You absolutely do not need at home charging in such a scenario.

Let me make this abundantly clear. At home charging is not necessary if you live in an area with robust public charging infrastructure. Period.

I actually do have this experience with this. Many of you who say you must own a charger don't live in areas where public chargers are basically everywhere. Many of the L2 ones are either free or very cheap.

I should mention the charge point chargers are he is mentioning are cheap level 2 chargers. They cost like $2.50 for four hours of charging. Which usually does get me to 90%.

Likewise I would definitely not recommend a plugin hybrid in such a scenario or even a regular hybrid when there is Robust public charging. An electric vehicle is a far better vehicle.

Now mind you...you have to figure out your own area to know this. But I know in this scenario where there are numerous public chargers around at home charging necessity is not just overstated but false. You will enjoy an electric car much more than a plugin hybrid or gas car.
I'm in the DC area as well, and I think you've convinced me to go ahead and pull the trigger with the one I have on hold. Thanks for your perspective!

My condo doesn't have outlets in the garage but there are rumors of them looking into options for those with EVs. I'm able to charge at work and I believe it will be around the price you mentioned.
 

theo1000

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are there any exterior outlets, or light fixtures near your parking spot that you could ADD an outlet to with Association approval? Problem of course would be that your charger would be outside and 'unlocked' unless you put it inside an enclosure.
There is such an enclosure on the MachE, its called the Frunk! I have (2) 50' cables and just this past week charged my MachE at my cabin @ 110v. Simply place your 110v EVSE in the frunk, run your cables to it, only engage the first latch which allows enough gap for all the wires to run through and plug-in EVSE from the frunk. For an overnight charge I got almost 55 miles of range added.
 

praxiscat

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I'm in the DC area as well, and I think you've convinced me to go ahead and pull the trigger with the one I have on hold. Thanks for your perspective!

My condo doesn't have outlets in the garage but there are rumors of them looking into options for those with EVs. I'm able to charge at work and I believe it will be around the price you mentioned.
Where in the DC area. Yeah it's not hard to find chargers where I am. Which is near the DC/MD border near Takoma Park and Silver Spring. I can even give you some hints if you are in Montgomery County. This is one of the better areas for chargers in general.
 

HDer

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I am paying 12 cents a kWh from a level 2 chargepoint charger here in DC and MD So I don't know where you are pulling out prices 2-3 times the amount of what I pay. Again...it really does depend where you live and your circumstances. Again an at home charger is not as necessary as some on this forum think it is.

Now mind you fast charging is more expensive. But around where I live level 2 is easy to find and either very cheap or free. It sounds like the OP is in a similar scenario. Where they can potentially use both.
Wow that’s a big difference. I don’t think anyone can even get electrons out of the outlet for that price here in California. There is free charging here but it’s rare. A few Volta stations (2 hours max) and the occasional business.
 

Chuck

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I live in California. Despite the really bad youtube "here's my Tesla TCO for 3 years" videos, an EV isn't cheaper here. Those videos always forget that insurance is twice an ICE vehicle

I live in SoCal and my actual insurance rate with Farmers on the Mach E is less than it was on the 2009 Ford Edge that it replaced.

As to electrical rates: SoCal Edison charges me 7 cents per KWH after 10pm. I have solar so I pretty much pay net zero for fuel.
 

praxiscat

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Wow that’s a big difference. I don’t think anyone can even get electrons out of the outlet for that price here in California. There is free charging here but it’s rare. A few Volta stations (2 hours max) and the occasional business.
This is why I said it depends on where you live. Here in the eastern megalopolis this isn't that unusual. Especially in DC.

I should note insurance is less on an electric than new ICE vehicles.
 

Nklem

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Also, interesting to note. PG&E costs $0.33/kWH for me right now. There's a maximum efficiency of around 85% according to a source I read. I haven't tested the real world efficiency of the Ford charger at 120v. So that means, to the battery, it costs me at least $0.38/kWH, which means I'm only getting maximum 34.7mpge charging at home. Which is still better than what I was getting before, but nowhere near say a Prius.
That's your blended rate from PG and E? That seems high. Is that not just the Peak charge. At 240V the charger is 92% efficient. I have not tested the 120V efficiency.
 

lakersfan

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Where in the DC area. Yeah it's not hard to find chargers where I am. Which is near the DC/MD border near Takoma Park and Silver Spring. I can even give you some hints if you are in Montgomery County. This is one of the better areas for chargers in general.
I'm in Alexandria but am in Montgomery County at least 1-2 a week. There are a couple spots down here but there does seem to be more up there
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