PSA - DO NOT UPDATE to 3.35.0 on Android if using PaaK without a FOB

[Carsinmyblood]

What this all boils down to is this:

WE DO NOT CONTROL OUR CARS ANYMORE.

We used to walk up and unlock with a door key, then start the car with the ignition key.

Does anyone here honestly think your phone (not under your control) is the BEST way to start a car that similarly isn't under your control? My '17 Mazda had an actual key in the fob and a place to use it to get in, and to start the car. Too much to ask for in 202X.....>

The way things are going, it wouldn't surprise me to find my car refusing to recognize my fob following an OTA someday. Do you really think that's NOT possible?

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[RickMachE]

Not a huge challenge, true. But there are plenty of good reasons I, and many others, don’t want to carry a key fob. Some of them are situation-specific, such as while going on a run. This isn’t a cheap car designed to get me from point A to point B, it’s a relatively high end mainstream consumer vehicle. The little added little luxuries that none of us really *need* such as PaaK, are what justify the price. Otherwise, we could just all drive a Leaf.

With any Ford, you can take the fob, leave it in the vehicle, and using the number pad locked the vehicle. It can be hidden, and in a Faraday bag.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

Really? I no longer use the original phone used to set up PaaK but the start codes works still. That phone is shut down in a box somewhere and hasn't been turned on in 6 months. My IT department transferred everything over to my new phone so I suppose PaaK is still present on the old phone? Are you saying if I power up that old phone and delete the FordPass app then my start code won't work any more?

I don't know if uninstalling the app deletes the PaaK entry - it's an interesting question. I believe I know what happens if you remove the PaaK entry though.

Although I haven't seen this stated as a fact from Ford that I can recall, I believe it's correct that the code is associated with the phone key profile, so if the car still thinks the phone is a valid key, then it thinks the code is valid (the phone being off in a box doesn't change it being valid; that implies that there's no expiration on the key). If you remove the PaaK (phone side or car side), the code goes with it. If you try to add a code for a phone and it matches the code for an existing PaaK entry, then the code will be rejected as a duplicate. (This is why I don't a backup start code right now - I hit that issue, then deleted the old phone's PaaK, and never added the second profile's backup start code despite being prompted to do so - the timing on this issue was such that I only was prompted twice and both times said "I'll do it later when I have a second to mess with it.".)

If you look in FordPass on the new phone, and go to the PaaK list (Vehicle tab, FEATURES & SETTINGS area, Paak Key Settings [*]), I bet you'll see your old phone listed there in the list of four entries.

[*] labelled by the Department of Redundancy Department, who apparently didn't know K is generally capitalized in PaaK or what the K stands for

 

[Cm12]

With any Ford, you can take the fob, leave it in the vehicle, and using the number pad locked the vehicle. It can be hidden, and in a Faraday bag.

Problem is that I live in Portland, Oregon, where the chances of getting my car broken into are extremely high. Surely I’m not the only one who lives in a city with rampant car break-ins. Sucks to have to replace a window but it’ll suck a lot more when they open the faraday bag and steal my car too.

You should NEVER leave your key fob in your car under any circumstances. Most high-speed police chase cases I’ve handled involving stolen cars were a direct result of the vehicle owner leaving the fob in the car or leaving the car running, some meth head steals it, and then puts every innocent person on the streets in fatal danger. So no, leaving the fob in the car is not an option.

 

[RickMachE]

Problem is that I live in Portland, Oregon, where the chances of getting my car broken into are extremely high. Surely I’m not the only one who lives in a city with rampant car break-ins. Sucks to have to replace a window but it’ll suck a lot more when they open the faraday bag and steal my car too.

You should NEVER leave your key fob in your car under any circumstances. Most high-speed police chase cases I’ve handled involving stolen cars were a direct result of the vehicle owner leaving the fob in the car or leaving the car running, some meth head steals it, and then puts every innocent person on the streets in fatal danger. So no, leaving the fob in the car is not an option.

I would not want to live in an area such as you describe. Yes, if I had those issues to deal with, I'd wouldn't consider leaving the fob, I'd put it in a armband or fanny pack.

 

[BMT1071]

Problem is that I live in Portland, Oregon, where the chances of getting my car broken into are extremely high. Surely I’m not the only one who lives in a city with rampant car break-ins. Sucks to have to replace a window but it’ll suck a lot more when they open the faraday bag and steal my car too.

You should NEVER leave your key fob in your car under any circumstances. Most high-speed police chase cases I’ve handled involving stolen cars were a direct result of the vehicle owner leaving the fob in the car or leaving the car running, some meth head steals it, and then puts every innocent person on the streets in fatal danger. So no, leaving the fob in the car is not an option.

But what if I find a really good hiding place??? ??

 

[SnBGC]

I don't know if uninstalling the app deletes the PaaK entry - it's an interesting question. I believe I know what happens if you remove the PaaK entry though.

Although I haven't seen this stated as a fact from Ford that I can recall, I believe it's correct that the code is associated with the phone key profile, so if the car still thinks the phone is a valid key, then it thinks the code is valid (the phone being off in a box doesn't change it being valid; that implies that there's no expiration on the key). If you remove the PaaK (phone side or car side), the code goes with it. If you try to add a code for a phone and it matches the code for an existing PaaK entry, then the code will be rejected as a duplicate. (This is why I don't a backup start code right now - I hit that issue, then deleted the old phone's PaaK, and never added the second profile's backup start code despite being prompted to do so - the timing on this issue was such that I only was prompted twice and both times said "I'll do it later when I have a second to mess with it.".)

If you look in FordPass on the new phone, and go to the PaaK list (Vehicle tab, FEATURES & SETTINGS area, Paak Key Settings [*]), I bet you'll see your old phone listed there in the list of four entries.

[*] labelled by the Department of Redundancy Department, who apparently didn't know K is generally capitalized in PaaK or what the K stands for

Yes, you are correct. When I switched to my current phone and was going through the process to set it up as a key.....it asked me to enter my passcode. When I did that, it said that was already in use (or something to that effect) so I created another code. Now I have two passcodes that will start the car. And yes, when I go into FordPass and look up the section for PaaK.....I see two phones. My S7 and the S10. I am too afraid to delete the S7 profile because I don't know what will happen and I don't want to brick anything.

I usually end up with new phones every year or so. By this time next year there will be 3 phones on that list. Then 4, then 5 and so on until cell phone technology changes in such a way that PaaK won't be compatible with the newer phones. Actually......the process is a bit complicated so there may come a time where I just won't bother to set up PaaK on my next phone.

In the whole scope of things it really isn't that big a deal for me. If I only got behind the wheel 2 or 3 times per day I could probably find a way for PaaK to work and then maybe I would use it more but my use case is much different than the average person so having a fob just works better for me for all sorts of reasons. The backup start code is there for PaaK users I believe so if that stops working then it's only a problem for me if I lose my key fob. Which pretty much is the case for every other car I own so that is normal for me.

 

[DevSecOps]

So my two cents about a lot of the comments here. People, including myself, will do as we please which we have a God given right to do. We learn from our mistakes. All these knee jerk reactions are the reason I just don't post much anymore. There's probably 1/2 of this thread that push the charge unlock button thinking that it stops L2 charging. It doesn't do a damn thing, but if they feel better doing that, more power to them. There's probably people that manually put their car into park before power down, which is unnecessary, but if they like doing that, so be it.

Many of us like the idea of not having a Key FOB in our pockets. We know the risk associated, I personally know now that I will not update FP without being home. The fail safe should have worked and it didn't, so I will now test that every so often and especially after an update is performed.

My suggestion ... let's keep to the positive support for people to be free and do as they wish while educating them on why you might do something different or how to avoid the same mistake twice. There's also a lot of positive troubleshooting going on here which is nice to see.

Now, off to the grocery store WITHOUT a FOB ?

 

[ChargedCheese]

Just wanted to add my name to the list. Got back from vacation yesterday and PaaK worked fine. Once we got home and my phone hit wifi, Ford Pass auto updated, and I was locked out this morning. I gained entry with the keypad and used the password to drive to work today - it took about 5 start button pushes to get the password entry up, but my password did work.

TLDR: I'm on team PaaK is now broke. Pixel 4XL / android 12

 

[DevSecOps]

Just wanted to add my name to the list. Got back from vacation yesterday and PaaK worked fine. Once we got home and my phone hit wifi, Ford Pass auto updated, and I was locked out this morning. I gained entry with the keypad and used the password to drive to work today - it took about 5 start button pushes to get the password entry up, but my password did work.

TLDR: I'm on team PaaK is now broke. Pixel 4XL / android 12

If you do a reset as I outlined in my third edit of the original post it's functionality should return. PITA, but it resolved the issue for me.

 

[Parasmoney]

I wonder if Ford is using DevSecOps process for software updates. i’m inclined to think maybe not with all these glitches that get released in production. luckily I don't have my MME right now. Hopefully the issues are fixed when it's delivered around May. Reading this is making me second guess the decision to get a MME. Lol... I might have to get a second phone just to test Ford app updates before upgrading the main phone to the latest version.

 

[mattsaradan]

If you do a reset as I outlined in my third edit of the original post it's functionality should return. PITA, but it resolved the issue for me.

Sorry, do you mean reset all PaaK keys from the car? What do mean by "do a reset"? Apologies if you already spelled that out and I missed it.

 

[chrisGT]

Another thing that was missed between the lines is that roadside assistance was of no assistance in this case.
PaaK not working and the backup code not showing up either is a car failure in my opinion and Ford and their roadside assistance representatives should own it. I am not sure if they can fix the actual issue but they can at least tow the car to your home and give you a ride.

 

[tomterky]

Just got off the phone with Ford and they told me that there's nothing that they can do and since the car is not in a "dangerous" situation that Roadside will not assist either.

If @Ford Motor Company wants to look at my case number it's CAS34322266

Basically I was just told by Ford that I'm on my own and "oh well". Then they told me that they hope I have a wonderful day ... how nice!

And this is why there must be two fobs given to the early adopter owners. @Ford Motor Company ; this is a HUGE safety issue and ethical issue. If someone is in danger of being chased to their vehicle or attempting to get out of a dangerous situation, this is real and happens. Do better!

 

[macchiaz-o]

I wonder if Ford is using DevSecOps process for software updates. i’m inclined to think maybe not with all these glitches that get released in production. luckily I don't have my MME right now. Hopefully the issues are fixed when it's delivered around May. Reading this is making me second guess the decision to get a MME. Lol... I might have to get a second phone just to test Ford app updates before upgrading the main phone to the latest version.

I think your eye roll is triggering this response, since I was eye rolling while reading yours. ?

DevSecOps ≠ Quality.
DevSecOps ≠ Perfection.

The forum IS your second phone... Or just do your update testing at a "safe place" like your home where the key fob is within comfortable walking distance.

New vehicles include two fobs. If your decision to buy a new vehicle is dependent upon having a fully reliable way to start a car, then this is not the right time to be owning a vehicle. All current lockout/unlock solutions have limitations.

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