Quit subsidizing PHEVs, they're 'fake electric cars,' climate group says

SteveUk

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The European/UK incentives made the PHEVs cheaper than a regular ICE.
I'm not aware of price incentives but company car tax is a lot lower for a kuga plug in hybird compare to a pure petrol one.
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portlandg

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The European/UK incentives made the PHEVs cheaper than a regular ICE.
The only UK incentives for PHEV's these days are if it is a company car. You will get tax relief. The plug in car grant for PHEV's was removed at the begining of the year and now only applies to BEV's that cost <ÂŁ50,000. My ER RWD just scrapes in at ÂŁ49,980. Phew
 

c max

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Similar story. 20 mile 1 way commute downhill, 20 mile back home uphill. Used 0.1 gal per day to get home in my CMax Energi. Recharged at work on 110v outlet every day. My first tank of gas lasted almost 2000 miles. When I told people about that they were amazed because they never heard anything like that from commercials or from dealers. Sent several to dealers to test drive and buy, but not one dealer had an Energi vehicle that was charged!
I''m retired so no daily commute, I, too, can go months without using gas.....as I said on the other forum, I have 38000 miles on my c max energi, but have over 5600 miles of regen miles.....that's almost a year of free driving (if, of course, the onboard computer is correct) depending on one's situation, a plug in might be a good fit.....I agree that most dealers seemed to have little interest in the c max energi.....when I saw people with a hybrid c max and started talking about the energi, they knew nothing about it, the tax credit or anything......I have a 2010 fusion hybrid that always got better mpgs then the estimates, and yes I know that has as much to do with driving style as the car itself......but the hybrid brought me to the plug-in, and the plug-in to the all electric.......based on my driving sytle, I charged the c max when I got home from some shopping yesterday (daytime temps here in N. Jersey was about mid 40's, when finsihed my battery said 26 miles......a few weeks ago, with the same driving style, same places, and temps in high 60's battery was 30......I think there will always be a place for plug-ins, especially with a range increase, they will be better than ICE for sure.....
 

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The European/UK incentives made the PHEVs cheaper than a regular ICE.
As I said, I have no direct knowledge of what is done in UK. We do know that is simply untrue in US. Example: Fusion Hybrid starts at $28K, compared to Fusion Energi that starts at $35K. The $4K tax credit doesn't make the Energi cheaper. Regular Fusion starts at $23K.

Just for giggles, I did a simple google search and found this:
https://www.nextgreencar.com/plugin-hybrid-cars/buying-guide/
Unlike in previous iterations of the PiCG, PHEVs currently receive no financial support in the shape of government grants, with the focus now firmly on pure-electric models.
So it seems that isn't true in UK either.
 

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As I said, I have no direct knowledge of what is done in UK. We do know that is simply untrue in US. Example: Fusion Hybrid starts at $28K, compared to Fusion Energi that starts at $35K. The $4K tax credit doesn't make the Energi cheaper. Regular Fusion starts at $23K.

Just for giggles, I did a simple google search and found this:
https://www.nextgreencar.com/plugin-hybrid-cars/buying-guide/
Unlike in previous iterations of the PiCG, PHEVs currently receive no financial support in the shape of government grants, with the focus now firmly on pure-electric models.
So it seems that isn't true in UK either.
I can only tell you what I read. months ago.
 


timbop

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I can only tell you what I read. months ago.
Regardless of whether I imagined or misremembered what I read, the premise still stands: PHEV's are no better than an ICE unless you charge the battery and drive on the electric motor.

Look, I don't have a thing against PHEVs. I am trying to talk my wife into getting one because she has a 2 mile commute, and generally only drives less than 20 miles a day. That's a perfect use case for a PHEV, IF she bothers to plug in when she gets home.
 

First Edition

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Regardless of whether I imagined or misremembered what I read, the premise still stands: PHEV's are no better than an ICE unless you charge the battery and drive on the electric motor.

Look, I don't have a thing against PHEVs. I am trying to talk my wife into getting one because she has a 2 mile commute, and generally only drives less than 20 miles a day. That's a perfect use case for a PHEV, IF she bothers to plug in when she gets home.
Not sure about your premise, PHEV's are no better than an ICE unless you charge the battery and drive on the electric motor.

Are you saying a HEV is no better than an ICE? because that is what a discharged PHEV is.
 

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Taking a left turn: I think PHEV/HEV's will be good for larger vehicles in the coming years (re: new F-150). Since battery tech won't be good enough for larger trucks a hybrid powertrain will assist in lowering fuel consumption (and thus CO2 emissions).
 

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“Ford plug-in hybrid owners are operating in electric mode nearly 60% of the time, according to new aggregate data”

Link
I drive about 90% electric miles in my Clarity, I fill the 7 gallon tank about every 1500-2000 miles unless I go on a long trip. It is rated for 47 miles on the 14kwh (usable) battery, but upper 30s this time of year. I did take it to Sacramento and back one time. The last time I went on a trip up north, I took my F250 instead due to road conditions where I went.
 

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Regardless of whether I imagined or misremembered what I read, the premise still stands: PHEV's are no better than an ICE unless you charge the battery and drive on the electric motor.

Look, I don't have a thing against PHEVs. I am trying to talk my wife into getting one because she has a 2 mile commute, and generally only drives less than 20 miles a day. That's a perfect use case for a PHEV, IF she bothers to plug in when she gets home.
The thing is that most people who spend extra money on PHEV, do so because they want to dip their toes into electric cars, but are concerned abut running out of juice on their way home. There is literally no other advantage to owning a PHEV. So they are already incentivized to maximize electric driving. And frankly when I bought mine the choice of electric was less than impressive. That is slowly changing and I am switching, as are many others. At some point PHEVs will go away, but if you want people to move away from all gasoline engines, providing a way to offset some of the extra cost is as good a way as any.
 

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Not sure about your premise, PHEV's are no better than an ICE unless you charge the battery and drive on the electric motor.

Are you saying a HEV is no better than an ICE? because that is what a discharged PHEV is.
For purposes of eliminating CO2, YES
For purposes of wasting government incentives that could have gone to a BEV, YES

A regular hybrid gets better gas mileage, but it still burns a lot of gas throughout the year and emits a lot of CO2.
 

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https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/new...c-cars-climate-group-says/ar-BB1bjw3U?ocid=se

Quit subsidizing PHEVs, they're 'fake electric cars,' climate group says
Reuters 12 hrs ago
http://a.msn.com/08/en-us/BB1bjw3U?ocid=sf
LONDON — Plug-in hybrid cars emit far more CO2 than advertised, according to tests commissioned by European group Transport and Environment (T&E), which on Monday called on governments to end subsidies and tax breaks for such models.
BB1bjw3O.jpg

The tests were conducted by Emissions Analytics on three plug-in hybrid SUV models — BMW's X5, Volvo's XC60 and Mitsubishi Motor Corp's Outlander - and found that even under optimal conditions they emitted far more CO2 than advertised.

"Plug-in hybrids are fake electric cars, built for lab tests and tax breaks, not real driving," Julia Poliscanova, T&E's senior director for clean vehicles said in a statement. "Governments should stop subsidising these cars with billions in taxpayers' money."

In response to requests for comment, a Volvo spokesperson in an email said all Volvo cars are certified and fully comply with existing emissions legislation.
Mitsubishi spokeswoman Amanda Gibson said, also by email, that independent tests can produce unreliable or variable figures depending on conditions and "we naturally contest any findings where we have no oversight of the testing or methodology."

BMW did not immediately reply.

T&E's announcement came just days after proposed European Union rules were released laying out tight emissions limits for carmakers to hit for their activities to be classed as a sustainable investment.

Under those rules, hybrid vehicles would lose their "green" label from 2026 onward.

Plug-in hybrids are a halfway house between conventional combustion engines and electric vehicles, combining a smaller engine with an electric motor and battery.

These hybrids have frequently been referred to as a "gateway technology" designed to get consumers comfortable with electric vehicle (EV) technology, especially as nervousness about the driving range of fully-electric vehicles has been an obstacle to mass adoption.

It has also helped carmakers stretch returns on their investments in combustion engine technologies.

In the first three quarters of 2020, sales of plug-in hybrids accounted for close to half of all electric or partially-electric vehicles in the European Union, as a growing number of consumers took advantage of government subsidies or tax breaks to buy them.

But climate groups like T&E have been critical of plug-in hybrids as unlike fully-electric models they emit CO2 when relying on their fossil-fuel engine instead of the battery.

Quit subsidizing PHEVs, they're 'fake electric cars,' climate group says originally appeared on Autoblog on Mon, 23 Nov 2020 11:30:00 EST.
This is more of a political position, which makes sense since the CEO is just a Political Science grad. This is more like me buying a CO2 meter from Home Depot, using it on my car, then saying my car pollutes too much on the interwebs. OK then. No wonder the companies didn't reply.
 
 




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