Quit subsidizing PHEVs, they're 'fake electric cars,' climate group says

JamieGeek

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The Ford PHEV's (Energi models of C-Max and Fusion) do have a button where you can hold the charge in the battery. Thus for a long distance trip you could hold the charge until you exit the freeway (something I've done with my C-Max). There was 3 modes: EV Now, EV Later, and Normal:
  • Normal: Car operates normally using up battery until it goes into hybrid mode
  • EV Now: Car attempts to use electricity without starting up the ICE until it goes into hybrid mode
  • EV Later: Car attempts to hold the charge in the battery at its current level

The new Escape/Kuga PHEV (when it goes on sale) adds a 4th mode to charge up the battery while you go down the road (something I wished the my C-Max had when I had one).
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The Ford PHEV's (Energi models of C-Max and Fusion) do have a button where you can hold the charge in the battery. Thus for a long distance trip you could hold the charge until you exit the freeway (something I've done with my C-Max). There was 3 modes: EV Now, EV Later, and Normal:
  • Normal: Car operates normally using up battery until it goes into hybrid mode
  • EV Now: Car attempts to use electricity without starting up the ICE until it goes into hybrid mode
  • EV Later: Car attempts to hold the charge in the battery at its current level

The new Escape/Kuga PHEV (when it goes on sale) adds a 4th mode to charge up the battery while you go down the road (something I wished the my C-Max had when I had one).
My wife’s car is a Fusion Energi. When she was working at the office her drive was 5 miles each way and for that and errands we hardly ever used gas In that car. We got it last December and had only refueled with gas once. For her, it was basically a BEV 90% of the time.
I just drove it down to VA, and used the EV later setting except when off the highway. The car has incredible range. On a 5 mile down mountain I got back over 2 miles of range. And this morning while having coffee, I found a Toyota dealer nearby on plugshare and got a free charge.
 

c max

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Hi all, Happy Thanksgiving......I have stated how happy I've been with my c max several times, so the "bashing" of plug-ins seems unnecessary to me.....if they are better, less polluting, etc, than ICE cars, there must be a certain value.....it doesn't have to be all or nothing.....it depends on each persons situation.....as several posters have said, they use their plug-in almost like an all electric with little to no gas use.....I will go a step further, driving a fusion hybrid for years taught me about driving to increase mpgs......"pulse and glide", which you don't hear much about on these forums, teaches you how to increase your range......to me driving styles has more to do with mpgs and range, not the car.....friends who bought hybrids and still do jack rabbit starts, keep on the gas until they reach the stop sign or stop light and complain about their mpgs are missing something....I was never a fanatic about driving style but certainly was aware of what I was doing and how it related to mpgs.....I would constantly get mpg ratings of 45+ using our fusion hybrid, and if that's not good for the environment, well i don't know......I guess I'm saying that everything has a place depending on one's situation, including regular hybrids and plug-ins with smaller batteries......
 

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The Ford PHEV's (Energi models of C-Max and Fusion) do have a button where you can hold the charge in the battery. Thus for a long distance trip you could hold the charge until you exit the freeway (something I've done with my C-Max). There was 3 modes: EV Now, EV Later, and Normal:
  • Normal: Car operates normally using up battery until it goes into hybrid mode
  • EV Now: Car attempts to use electricity without starting up the ICE until it goes into hybrid mode
  • EV Later: Car attempts to hold the charge in the battery at its current level

The new Escape/Kuga PHEV (when it goes on sale) adds a 4th mode to charge up the battery while you go down the road (something I wished the my C-Max had when I had one).
Normal refers to "auto". Auto will start the ice when the amps exceed a certain level regardless of the state of charge. As stated previously in this thread, the Engeri can be recharged during auto use and during downhills. I did so on mine between 18 and 96% state charge in Oct.2019. The Energi main flaw is its inability to rapidly cool its hvb. The passive thermal regulation with fans and even with the air conditioning running is inadequate for summer temperatures. Unlike the Mme the Energi isn't hamstrung by no and poor ccs infrastructure in Wisconsin and the UP of Michigan
 

ab13

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Hi all, Happy Thanksgiving......I have stated how happy I've been with my c max several times, so the "bashing" of plug-ins seems unnecessary to me.....if they are better, less polluting, etc, than ICE cars, there must be a certain value.....it doesn't have to be all or nothing.....it depends on each persons situation.....as several posters have said, they use their plug-in almost like an all electric with little to no gas use.....I will go a step further, driving a fusion hybrid for years taught me about driving to increase mpgs......"pulse and glide", which you don't hear much about on these forums, teaches you how to increase your range......to me driving styles has more to do with mpgs and range, not the car.....friends who bought hybrids and still do jack rabbit starts, keep on the gas until they reach the stop sign or stop light and complain about their mpgs are missing something....I was never a fanatic about driving style but certainly was aware of what I was doing and how it related to mpgs.....I would constantly get mpg ratings of 45+ using our fusion hybrid, and if that's not good for the environment, well i don't know......I guess I'm saying that everything has a place depending on one's situation, including regular hybrids and plug-ins with smaller batteries......
There are still so many people who don't have dedicated parking places, so the ability to charge is limited. Going to a BEV only would be impractical for most of those people, so they would just as soon keep the gas only vehicle. PHEV let people learn how to transition if their situation isn't practical for charging. Aside from that, it's possible to get good deals on some PHEV models.
 


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There are still so many people who don't have dedicated parking places, so the ability to charge is limited. Going to a BEV only would be impractical for most of those people, so they would just as soon keep the gas only vehicle. PHEV let people learn how to transition if their situation isn't practical for charging. Aside from that, it's possible to get good deals on some PHEV models.
And you don't really need 240V. With the small PHEV battery, it usually fully charges overnight on 120V. That means homeowners don't have to spend upwards of a thousand bucks for a new 240V circuit. And those without a house at least have a halfway decent chance of finding a 120V plug at home or work.

Unless batteries take dramatic quantum leaps in the next handful of years to double energy density and cut charging time in half (at half the price), I really think PHEVs will have a bigger market share by mid-decade than BEVs (in the US).

I get that pure BEV is better in some ways. And that pure ICE is better in some ways. Putting both in the same vehicle will dilute each a little from it's most perfect pure effectiveness. But the combo greatly mitigates some major individual shortcomings (ICE pollution, BEV range). And because batteries are still so expensive, PHEV's are usually much cheaper than BEVs.
 

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A PHEV is ideal for two main reasons:

Driving very long distances often and not having to stop and recharge. This is regular hybrid driving, but for shorter distance driving the battery can be charged locally.

During cold winters with similar long distance driving. This issue is what deters buying a BEV. The engine also provides heat.

For those who have no external charging facility, go with a standard hybrid. The Fusion and CMAX get great MPG numbers and engine maintenance is much less than an ICE. In five years my Fusion Hybrid only needed annual oil changes.

So in the immediate future, all ICEs must be replaced with hybrids and plug-in hybrids until EVs can completely replace all hybrids.
 

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The problem is that the majority don't ever bother to charge the battery, just drive it as an ICE with a discount.
That may be so but my wife had a 2013 FFE and we charged it every night after driving it. It was fantastic for local out and backs. We were averaging over 50MPG over the 3 years we owned the car.
 

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I would like to see a minimum of 30-50 miles of range in order to qualify fir PHEV discounts, privileges, or credits.
Setups like the BMW I3 Rex and the Volt are what’s needed. IMO
Although I think the ICE motor on the Volt was too big. I think the Volts biggest problem was that it was a Chevy 4dr sedan.
 

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The problem is that the majority don't ever bother to charge the battery, just drive it as an ICE with a discount. ---article was European based and being applied to this country makes it laughable. No question a PHEV is a better solution when you live in a dead area of DCFC and even sparse Superchargers.
 

c max

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I would agree that for the purpose of getting a tax credit, maybe the battery should meet a particular size for a plug-in.....but as I have said any improvement over ICE numbers (mpg's, etc) is ok with me......my 2013 c max energi has 38,000+ miles, 5600 regen miles, 80.5 MPGe's and 128+ MPG's......again numbers alone don't tell the whole story......my miles are 70% local 30% highway......and yes, we do use the AC and heat whenever needed, although I usually use the hybrid option, save the battery for another time.....
 

Billyk24

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I would agree that for the purpose of getting a tax credit, maybe the battery should meet a particular size for a plug-in.....but as I have said any improvement over ICE numbers (mpg's, etc) is ok with me......my 2013 c max energi has 38,000+ miles, 5600 regen miles, 80.5 MPGe's and 128+ MPG's......again numbers alone don't tell the whole story......my miles are 70% local 30% highway......and yes, we do use the AC and heat whenever needed, although I usually use the hybrid option, save the battery for another time.....
Normally when one posts high mpg with Cmax, the hub has degraded due to the vehicles inability to maintain thermal regulation. What is your current hub kWh capacity when 5.6 is the new value.
 

c max

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Normally when one posts high mpg with Cmax, the hub has degraded due to the vehicles inability to maintain thermal regulation. What is your current hub kWh capacity when 5.6 is the new value.
I am more than a little embarrassed to say that I have no idea what you are talking about, haha.....I'm glad no one on the forum knows me, haha.....the reason I have high MPG's is that I do most of my driving using the battery of the plug-in.....of my 38000+ miles, over 32000 are EV miles, so over the last 7 years, very little gas driving.....all the numbers I mention are from the lifetime summary as provided by the car......which is why I am a defender of plug-ins, I've driven it more like a EV than plug-in hybrid....I'm sorry that my lack of knowledge, some would call ignorance, doesn't allow me to answer your question.......I find that often the "tech" talk is way beyond me.....
 

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It's a propaganda piece by a group that wants an end to ICE and uses a scientific veneer disguising flawed methods to make their point.
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