Range decrease due to cold weather! -- Explanation & how to calculate actual range

[chris e]

Does the Tesla have a heat pump? I really want to blame the conventional heater. I doubt there is a fix, if thats the issue.

Good question . Not sure

Sponsored

 

[ChasingCoral]

HOWEVER - who can tell me if there is information about this:
The battery is warmed to improve output. Is the WHOLE DAMN battery warmed? It would make sense to me that a 'segment' being used or soon to be used would be prepared for use. If this is already addressed then please correct me.

Think of it like a frozen river. Thawing the water at one beach won't make the river flow any faster.

 

[timbop]

Good question . Not sure

Yes, Tesla started putting heat pumps in their cars in 2021. Before that the Teslarati kept belittling the feature (other EVs had them), but now that they have it Musk is a genius and any car without one is garbage.

In reality it is neither a godsend nor frivolous: it helps some, but yields roughly 10% range at best. If you need that 10% to get home then it matters, but if you don't it doesn't.

 

[Maquis]

Yes, Tesla started putting heat pumps in their cars in 2021. Before that the Teslarati kept belittling the feature (other EVs had them), but now that they have it Musk is a genius and any car without one is garbage.

In reality it is neither a godsend nor frivolous: it helps some, but yields roughly 10% range. If you need that 10% to get home then it matters, but if you don't it doesn't.

10% is true at some temperature. The colder it gets, the less efficient the heat pump is. It fades when you need it most.

 

[timbop]

10% is true at some temperature. The colder it gets, the less efficient the heat pump is. It fades when you need it most.

Sure, which is why it isn't really a significant feature - which is what I was trying to convey.

 

[johnmark]

Turns out Tesla's heat pump doesn't work that well after all, in comparison

https://www.consumerreports.org/car...e-affects-electric-vehicle-range-a4873569949/

 

[RickMachE]

Turns out Tesla's heat pump doesn't work that well after all, in comparison

https://www.consumerreports.org/car...e-affects-electric-vehicle-range-a4873569949/

You need to look at car heat pumps in context. Heat pumps work good at the right temperature. That's why in the peak of winter, with cold temps, they offer no improvement. But, when temps are in the mid 30s and 40s, they offer some improvement.

The other issue is that apparently Tesla's EPA numbers are overstated as compared to others.

 

[johnmark]

You need to look at car heat pumps in context. Heat pumps work good at the right temperature. That's why in the peak of winter, with cold temps, they offer no improvement. But, when temps are in the mid 30s and 40s, they offer some improvement.

The other issue is that apparently Tesla's EPA numbers are overstated as compared to others.

That was my main takeaway from the piece. I noticed that their test runs were conducted at freezing cold and mild temps, with nothing in between. That said, I still expected it to perform better, and it didn't - not only in the cold but at any temp. And whatever the benefits of a heat pump at 35f, I didn't expect it to be negligible or non-existent at 20f. A real eye-opener.

 

[Sealevel]

I took my ER Premium ER on a round trip to Cincinnati from Memphis this weekend - used DCFC each way and I confirm that range dropped by about 25% versus my local experience in warmer weather. Temps were in the low 30's daytime when I was driving, but in the high teens overnight when it was parked outside at the hotel. Part of the lower range is attributable to sustained 70 mph on highways and use of pre-heating cabin and seats, but I also see about 20% loss of range in my daily commute now that temperature is 30 to 40 degrees colder.

BTW, I had a few issues getting the DCFC chargers to start - I used Electrify America 150 and 350 kW chargers and fully depleted my 250 kW credit from the purchase. I charged to 80 and 95% for the trip due to distances between chargers and my unwillingness to push below 20% on the road. I did run down to 11% for the final leg (180+ miles) to my home where I have a 40 Amp L2 GrizzlE charger in my garage.

I needed the breaks every 3 hours as I'm 65. I will say the seating is very comfortable compared to what I was used to in my previous vehicle (small pickup with manual buckets).

 

[Toy_collector]

regarding the Tesla heat pump, I have a 2021 model Y with the heat pump and the ER MME and in temps between 30 and 50 deg F there is a huge difference between the Model Y and the MME which I assume is due to the heat pump in the Tesla. Below 30 or above 50 F they both have similar ranges. The one thing that does make a huge difference on a road trip is Tesla's ability to precondition the battery on the way to a fast charger and their overall faster charge speeds. This makes the Tesla a much preferred road tripper.

 

[Scooby24]

Good question . Not sure

I think all of em have the heat pumps and I agree, it's the heater.

For funsies I've been ensuring my heater is off (whole hvac is off) and doing what ford suggests with utilizing heated seats and steering wheel. After all, we're bundled up in the car for the cold, not that big a deal to not use the heater.

My morning trip this morning which is about 5 miles in 50 degree weather netted me 3.9 mi/kwh which mirrors my usual spring, early summer efficiency, before I have to use the A/C.

However, when I use the A/C it's not THAT much worse. Not like when I use the heater. When I use the heater it's more like 2.1-2.3 mi/kwh.

After doing this about a week, my 90% GOM estimate is back up to around 200 miles....which is what it usually shows given my right foot habits.

 

[Sealevel]

Today I left home with 95% SOC and the range estimate was 222 miles. I drove my usual 15.6 miles and the SOC decreased to 90% - so I used about 4.55 KW. At the end of my commute, the GOM says I have 235 miles of range. The difference is the temperature during my commute was 48 F versus the 33 F when I charged it. I don't trust the range estimate, only the SOC.

 

[hybrid2bev]

Inside EV's has a pro-Tesla agenda or Electrek has anti-Tesla agenda?

Supposed to be the same chart from Recurrent showing the difference in range in freezing temps vs. 70F degree temps.

https://insideevs.com/news/626577/winter-cold-weather-ev-range-loss-study/

https://electrek.co/2022/12/13/worried-about-winter-range-loss-see-how-over-a-dozen-evs-compare/

 

[Darkenmage]

All I can say is there is another post here somewhere that has supporting data. My experience support that post AND the FACT is SPEED kills your range MORE than cold weather.

 

[Guss-E 2021]

All I can say is there is another post here somewhere that has supporting data. My experience support that post AND the FACT is SPEED kills your range MORE than cold weather.

I absolutely agree. To add to the chorus...

Car: 2022 Premium RE
Climate: NH been in the mid 30's lately (20's at night)
Overnight: in the garage (unheated); plugged in
Preheat cabin before work? - Yes to 70 F, heat seats, heat steering wheel

Off I go. I typically drive 70-75 mph. I now get about 2.5 mile/kWh (I'm good with that). I find I'm paying far less attention to the GOM (you know, because of the "guess" part of that acronym) and more to my battery percentage and miles/kWh. My car sits outside in a parking lot at work so it gets cold. I often run errands over lunch. The speed limits around work are low (25-35 mph) on tiny streets with lots of traffic lights and stop signs. Basically NOT highway speeds. I've noticed my range in miles drops faster than my batter percentage during these jaunts. To me, that really supports what @Darkenmage posted.

In my job, I have to do a lot of sensitivity and breakeven analysis. Worst case scenario stuff. People talk about losing 10-25% range in the cold. I made sure that I could lose up to 50% of the EPA stated range without it affecting my daily driving before I placed my order. I'm aware that is extreme but hope for the best plan for the worst. Fortunately for me, the cold weather range loss (which I completely expected) has had no material affect on my enjoyment of this car. And of course being able to charge up in a garage every night was factored into my purchase. I love being able to warm a vehicle up inside a garage. I love not having to wait for the engine to warm up or feeling compelled to drive faster in order to get the heat going inside the car.

Sponsored