Report: Toyota CEO claims EVs worsen CO2 emissions, pushes back on proposed ICE bans

[All Hat No Cattle]

Unfortunately, since it is tied into S&P 500 now when it tumbles it will cause a significant ripple effect through all markets.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm very light in the In SPY (S&P 500 fund), but I'm calculating that if Tesla goes down, Ford goes up. When (if) people wake up. But we shall see.

Tesla stock is predicated on a narrative not an actual business

Is that suggesting that Tesla stockholders are actually buying a story? I'm not sure that I would pay $600 a share for a story.

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[RonTCat]

Tesla stock is predicated on a narrative not an actual business so it's hard to say the price of a share is ludicrous. ? Markets can remain irrational for very long periods of time.

You could say all stocks are predicated on a narrative, it's just that Tesla has no assets to back its price.

Normally a P/E of maybe higher than 30 will scare off an investor. Tesla basically added two zeros to that. Despite Musk's best efforts, the shorts will have their day. He has, to his credit, been able to outrun it so far. How much longer, who knows. If you do know, tell me IMMEDIATELY, lol.

 

[dbsb3233]

You could say all stocks are predicated on a narrative, it's just that Tesla has no assets to back its price.

Normally a P/E of maybe higher than 30 will scare off an investor. Tesla basically added two zeros to that. Despite Musk's best efforts, the shorts will have their day. He has, to his credit, been able to outrun it so far. How much longer, who knows. If you do know, tell me IMMEDIATELY, lol.

They're being treated like a tech company rather than a car company.

Google P/E 33.
Apple P/E 38.
Tesla P/E 1328.

 

[dbsb3233]

Ford has unfortunately overlooked the automotive trends coming out of California, which is by far the largest and most influential auto market in the US. The EV trend is the most recent example of a missed opportunity for Ford.

It wasn't really all that long ago that Ford held a solid #1 position in California. Ford has since lost that spot to the likes of Toyota and Honda, but even Tesla is now selling at a rate greater than 50% of Ford sales in California.

Not really. CA is more the outlier in the US than the norm. Most of the country doesn't like that much heavy government regulation.

Ford was smart to wait until now to jump into the BEV game, waiting for the batteries to be good enough to make a vehicle that the masses could like the styling of. They know what they're doing.

 

[TheSteelRider]

All hail California ... All hail Elon Musk ... All hail Cybertruck. All car companies besides Tesla should die because they want to ... get this ... actually make money actually selling cars people actually want to buy. What an insane concept.

 

[bluestarct]

Tesla stock is predicated on a narrative not an actual business so it's hard to say the price of a share is ludicrous. ? Markets can remain irrational for very long periods of time.

Good traders don't fight the market. Too much group think can push irrational behavior for a long time. You can bet against the market but learn to walk away.

When rational thinking comes back to Tesla, the price will come down fast and bring others with it. Investors will have to liquidate non-Tesla investments to cover margins they have on Tesla. I do feel bad for people in index funds.

 

[dbsb3233]

Lead, follow or get out of the way.

With Tesla still growing and with Apple entering the EV market in 2024 with new battery and AV tech I’m not sure how much Ford will be able to choose their destiny in California.

Ford's been leading for 117 years. They know what they're doing. It's why they sell over 5 million vehicle a year.

 

[dbsb3233]

5.386 million in 2019 to be exact.

Which is still 10 times more than Tesla sells.

 

[macchiaz-o]

I do feel bad for people in index funds.

Don't feel bad for me. I will weather this storm.

 

[trutolife27]

In 2019, S.U.V.s and pickups are grabbing a record 70 percent of the market, with 5.9 million sales through June versus 2.5 million for cars. Sales of midsize sedans have nose-dived, from 3 million in 2012 to 1.9 million last year. One of every five cars sold was a midsize sedan in 2012; today it’s barely one in 10.


Car sales plunged 13 percent and would have dipped even further but for Tesla finally achieving decent production of its Model 3 sedan in the second half of the year, Chesbrough noted.

Car sales fell to 31 percent of sales, from 36 percent a year ago and 50 percent in 2013. The 5.4 million cars sold last year represented the fewest since they had tail fins, in 1958.

Ford’s president for North America, said that in this brutally capital-intensive business, it was time to make hard choices: to invest where Ford sees growth and competitive strength and to shed shrinking or money-losing segments.

“There are still people buying sedans. “But it goes back to ‘Where do we allocate capital?’”




That is the whole point. You either switch with the times or get left behind. It's not about the experiment with business. They are out to make money. Cycles always come and go with products. Phones, video game systems, cameras. How many companies saw the change and did nothing and are no longer around or just a fraction of what they once were.

You had the gas purge of the early 1970s that pushed the light small cars for 30 years. Now it's switching to SUV and truck trend. Same with ice vs bev. At only 2% today what do you think the percentage of BEV vehicles will be in 2035? I will say around 50% by then.

They are not just laughing at the CEO of Toyota certain suppliers are leaving and starting to make parts for BEV. Japan issued the 2035 rule also. Sitting on the fence is one thing and then deciding. Falling off the fence drunk and not even trying to get back up............well could be catastrophic.

 

[All Hat No Cattle]

First Edition said:


5.386 million in 2019 to be exact.

Which is still 10 times more than Tesla sells.

Well, if we are going to be "exact", the ratio actually is 14.635 times more than Tesla sells.

Globally, Tesla's vehicle deliveries reached between 367,000 and 368,000 units in 2019, making Tesla the leading producer of plug-in electric vehicles. Concurrently, Tesla's Model 3 has become the world's best-selling all-electric vehicle model.Nov 4, 2020

Again, I still don't get the infatuation with Tesla. After all, according to their own website, Tesla is not even a nationwide company.

As of September 2020, Tesla operates more than 130 stores and galleries in the United States, and has stores and galleries in 34 other countries.

By their own dealer list, they have dealers in 31 states and DC. What happens if you happen to break down in a state without a dealer?? Good luck!

https://www.tesla.com/findus/list/stores/United States

 

[buffasnow]

Speaking of auto company CEOs, corporate strategic plans and leadership, below is an article from 2006 that speaks volumes about Bill Ford's stewardship of the company.

Despite Bill Ford's "widely publicized goal of selling 250,000 hybrid vehicles a year by 2010" Ford Motor abandoned that commitment and instead went for......wait for it........ethanol!

" The Sierra Club said it was "appalled" that Ford was pulling back on its commitment to hybrids in favor of flexible-fuel vehicles. "

I mean seriously, talk about a lack of vision and leadership, one could hardly do worse.

For context, Tesla was founded in 2003, three years before Bill Ford pulled back from electrification and went into ethanol. The rest is an unfortunate history, but a history that could have been predicted.

Ford Plans Shift in Focus Away From Electrification/Hybrids

Good thing 'ol Elon has never changed any plans or reneged on any commitments.

 

[Lukeh02]

Speaking of auto company CEOs, corporate strategic plans and leadership, below is an article from 2006 that speaks volumes about Bill Ford's stewardship of the company.

Despite Bill Ford's "widely publicized goal of selling 250,000 hybrid vehicles a year by 2010" Ford Motor abandoned that commitment and instead went for......wait for it........ethanol!

" The Sierra Club said it was "appalled" that Ford was pulling back on its commitment to hybrids in favor of flexible-fuel vehicles. "

I mean seriously, talk about a lack of vision and leadership, one could hardly do worse.

For context, Tesla was founded in 2003, three years before Bill Ford pulled back from electrification and went into ethanol. The rest is an unfortunate history, but a history that could have been predicted.

Ford Plans Shift in Focus Away From Electrification/Hybrids

Not sure what your angle is when you send an article that is 14 almost 15 years old.

It's pretty obvious that over the years things have changed.

 

[trutolife27]

Not sure what your angle is when you send an article that is 14 almost 15 years old.

It's pretty obvious that over the years things have changed.

Yep, that is the point. all consumer manufacturers will switch to what is selling or get left behind. Nothing new. The point is Toyota is not wanting to because they spent so much money on hybrid tech that is now getting passed up. So guess it was a great idea for ford back then to back out of it like stop making cars that don't sell and fewer profit margins.

In the business world, it's chess, not checkers. part of the way apple controls things. Yep, they have the tech now they could release But nope they let little by little out and keep people like cattle and let little by little out. Same with diamonds. Buy buy and stock up and keep prices high.

None of it I'm saying is right but that is the world.

 

[jhalkias]

Speaking of auto company CEOs, corporate strategic plans and leadership, below is an article from 2006 that speaks volumes about Bill Ford's stewardship of the company.

Despite Bill Ford's "widely publicized goal of selling 250,000 hybrid vehicles a year by 2010" Ford Motor abandoned that commitment and instead went for......wait for it........ethanol!

" The Sierra Club said it was "appalled" that Ford was pulling back on its commitment to hybrids in favor of flexible-fuel vehicles. "

I mean seriously, talk about a lack of vision and leadership, one could hardly do worse.

For context, Tesla was founded in 2003, three years before Bill Ford pulled back from electrification and went into ethanol. The rest is an unfortunate history, but a history that could have been predicted.

Ford Plans Shift in Focus Away From Electrification/Hybrids

That was important in 2006.
This is 2020.
Here is some more recent news (only a couple of years old) regarding Musk and the Sierra Club.
https://gizmodo.com/report-elon-musk-dragged-the-sierra-club-into-helping-1827707277
On the one hand, Musk seems to support green technology and electrification, on the other hand, he heartily supports politics that have proponents destructive to the environment.

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