Rivian Adventure Network: Is it good for Ford?

silverelan

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https://electrek.co/2020/06/01/rivi...electric-pickup-tesla-staff-charging-network/


By: Fred Lambert
The charging experience is really important for the success of electric vehicles and automakers have widely different approaches. Rivian, an electric pickup truck startup, is betting on its own network and it is hiring from the leader, Tesla, to build it out.

One of Teslaā€™s greatest advantages over other automakers in the electric revolution is the fact that it has much greater control over the charging experience than other companies.

While most of the charging happens at home, in order to replace gasoline vehicles, electric automakers need a seamless charging experience on the road to enable long-distance travel.

Most automakers rely on third-party charging networks to provide the charging experience, but early on, Tesla decided to build its own charging network and control the experience with the Supercharger network.

Rivian is taking a similar approach.

Electrek has learned from sources familiar with the matter that the automaker is working on the ā€˜Rivian Adventure Networkā€™ and it is hiring people who worked on Teslaā€™s Supercharger network.

In March, Rivian hired Carrington Bradley as Senior Manager of Charging Deployment.

Before joining Rivian, Bradley had been working at Tesla for almost 7 years and most recently, he was managing charging programs at the company.

He wrote about his responsibilities and accomplishments at Tesla on LinkedIn:

ā€œBuilt and managed a national team of 11 project managers to design, permit, and build electric vehicle Supercharger stations. Under my leadership, the team scaled from 50 to 150 completed sites per year. Globally, the Supercharger network is the largest direct current fast charging network in the world, covering over 1,900 sites and 17,000 parking stalls in 37 countries.ā€
Around the same time, Rivian also hired Sara Eslinger as ā€˜Sr. Product Manager, Charging Infrastructure at Rivianā€™.

Eslinger was hired away from Lyft where she was leading electric vehicle deployment. Prior to working for Lyft, she worked for more than 6 years at Tesla in charging infrastructure.

Rivian has also hired Kit Ahuja as Director of Rivian Adventure Network and he formerly was a manager at Tesla. He more recently worked at Enel X, which is also in the EV charging business.

The automaker has previously mentioned its ambition to build its own charging network:

ā€œWe will be building some of our own charging infrastructure, including many of the outdoor destinations for which our vehicles are designed.ā€
But we now learn some additional details.

For the ā€œadventureā€ aspect of the network, Rivian will first target off-roading pit-stops, national parks, and RV parks.

When Rivian first unveiled the R1T electric pickup, they were talking about a charge rate of up to 160 kW at fast-charging stations and an 11-kW onboard charger for level 2 charging.

The prototype was equipped with a CCS charge port.

We now learn from sources that Rivian is aiming for its DC charging stations to deliver up to 200 kW and each charger can charge two vehicles at once.

Since Rivian owners will have access to all third-Party networks with CCS chargers, the automaker is going to focus on remote locations to close the gap and enable adventures in the wild.


For example, we are told that the company is aiming for one of its first Rivian-branded charging stations to be located in Moab, Utah.

The first sites are supposed to come online next year.

Electrekā€™s Take
This is awesome news.

I love to hear that Rivian is moving forward with its own charging network and that they are hiring from Tesla to make it happen.

Iā€™ve been saying for a while but when it comes to charging, automakers should just copy Teslaā€™s approach.

Tesla will be fine. While Iā€™m sure Tesla will miss them, the Supercharger network will keep growing without those employees. I think their experience building out the Supercharger network is probably much more valuable at Rivian right now.

I could see Rivian doing very well with just a few hundreds well located charging stations for adventures across North America and relying on third-party networks, who will have grown significantly by that time, for the rest.
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silverelan

silverelan

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This is exactly the sort of thing we need! If Rivian puts high-powered DC fast chargers in out of the way destinations that Mustang Mach-E owners can also use, then that really helps expand the options for road tripping.
 

timbop

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HANG ON - this is good if their network is open to other brands (clearly for a fee), but bad news for consumers otherwise. Tesla had to create their own network because at the time there were no legitimate alternatives, and now that they have they are using it to help corner the market. If the market shifts to lots of closed-to-brand-X-only networks, then a small monopoly will develop. Presumably manufacturers would also follow Tesla's lead and offer charging cheaper than EA, EVgo, etc - making those networks atrophy and possibly die. Confusion about charging in the average consumer's mind will also go way up, inhibiting BEV adoption.
 
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s7davis

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I think this will be good because now other vehicles will have the ability to fast charge on road trips instead of trying to search around town for them and then finding their is only 1 or 2. I think if Rivian does do this it will be for all other cars as well because they will have the standard charging cable/hookup as all the other cars but Tesla.

Also I do not see Rivian not allowing Ford to use it as Ford funded part of RIVIAN so I will bet all my money that the Mach-E will be able to charge at their fast chargers when they are installed. This just a nice step forward for long distant travels in other electric car brands besides Tesla which is cornering the market at the moment but once others step in it will be a fight and Tesla will start lowering prices a little more as more affordable EVs come to the market.
 

timbop

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if Rivian does do this it will be for all other cars as well because they will have the standard charging cable/hookup
Just because it has the same connector does not mean that the charger will allow you to use it. Sure, Ford might be included in this case but my point extends beyond just that case: in general, as consumers we do not benefit with a bunch of fragmented closed-to-other-brands networks.
 


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Just because it has the same connector does not mean that the charger will allow you to use it. Sure, Ford might be included in this case but my point extends beyond just that case: in general, as consumers we do not benefit with a bunch of fragmented closed-to-other-brands networks.
The advantage to Rivian is clear too, right? Much wider customer base of all EV's as opposed to just their own.
 

timbop

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The advantage to Rivian is clear too, right? Much wider customer base of all EV's as opposed to just their own.
Oh yes, for manufacturers who do it theres advantages, but not consumers
 

Billyk24

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Just because it has the same connector does not mean that the charger will allow you to use it. Sure, Ford might be included in this case but my point extends beyond just that case: in general, as consumers we do not benefit with a bunch of fragmented closed-to-other-brands networks.
My thought is Rivian will let others use it because it will provide cash flow for the company. The remote sites also will hit Tesla's Cybertruck hard(er?) as they might not be able to fast DC charge out in the wild. AS for the 200kW charging rate, what exactly will the charging curve look like? 200kW sounds impressive but for how long and what is the taper.
 
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silverelan

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@timbop, is there something in the article that makes you think the Rivian chargers would be exclusive to Rivian owners?
 

timbop

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@timbop, is there something in the article that makes you think the Rivian chargers would be exclusive to Rivian owners?
No, other than it would be to rivians advantage. Why expend capital to get a competetive advantage, and then give that strategic resource away (even for a fee)? Tesla can market that their cars have twice as many chargers as anyone else, and rivian could say the same thing - their cars could use their own plus evgo, ea, etc. It would be big selling point to be the only ccs chargers in offroad havens, as well as highways and shopping centers
 

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Why expend capital to get a competetive advantage, and then give that strategic resource away (even for a fee)? ---Not enough Rivian vehicles to provide sufficient payback for investment. Allowing other vehicles to use with a fee provides an additional cash flow for the company.
 

timbop

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Why expend capital to get a competetive advantage, and then give that strategic resource away (even for a fee)? ---Not enough Rivian vehicles to provide sufficient payback for investment. Allowing other vehicles to use with a fee provides an additional cash flow for the company.
Perhaps. I hope so, I was more just pointing out that this could be good or bad depending on how rivian handles it.

I'm not saying I'm a pessimist, but not only is the glass half empty but the water is evaporating
 
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silverelan

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There's nothing to indicate that Rivian wants chargers that are brand-exclusive. Merely that Rivian sees that they need chargers in places that otherwise make no sense.

Tesla puts superchargers in destinations that owners want to visit and then on the routes to get there. Rivian just needs to put chargers at the destinations and other CCS networks already fill in the blanks.
 

dbsb3233

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HANG ON - this is good if their network is open to other brands (clearly for a fee), but bad news for consumers otherwise. Tesla had to create their own network because at the time there were no legitimate alternatives, and now that they have they are using it to help corner the market. If the market shifts to lots of closed-to-brand-X-only networks, then a small monopoly will develop. Presumably manufacturers would also follow Tesla's lead and offer charging cheaper than EA, EVgo, etc - making those networks atrophy and possibly die. Confusion about charging in the average consumer's mind will also go way up, inhibiting BEV adoption.
Yep. Automakers having their own charging networks is far from ideal. Tesla kind of had to do it as the first big EV manuafctrer (to help solve the chicken & egg conundrum). But it just leads to proprietary exclusivity and less open competition. Far better is total independence between auto manufacturers and retail charger companies.

Imagine if Ford had their own gas stations, and Chevy their own. And there were hardly any others. Pricing would be way higher (or just subsidized the the price of vehicles) without more legitimate head-to-head competition.
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