Rivian Announces Proprietary Charging Network (plus public charging)

[ajmartineau]

We need one plug or cross-compatibility. If I rolled up to my favorite trailhead, which is on public land, and saw a private Supercharger or Rivan-Charger, I'd be pissed. Go ahead and charge me more as a non-owner, that's cool by me, but don't leave me stranded there.
Also as alluded to early, Tesla will regret their private network. We are already seeing huge lines at Superchargers on busy weekends.

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[DBC]

We need one plug or cross-compatibility. ...

We are already seeing huge lines at Superchargers on busy weekends.

The plug isn't the issue. Rivian will use a CCS plug. It just won't charge if a non-Rivian vehicle is plugged in.

I believe that generally proprietary networks are doomed. However for a niche play like this it may have some legs.

Speaking of a proprietary network, Tesla vehicles could use use the CCS charging network if Tesla released an adapter. I think the problem is that by releasing the adapter it's essentially admitting that it's network is not the be all and end all. I believe there is a CHAdeMO adapter but the charging speeds are low.

As for being stranded, it's the driver's responsibility to know where the chargers are.

 

[bluestarct]

Here is the posting and information on what is being done. There is the 3,500 Rivian Adventure Network chargers at 600'ish sites which are proprietary and a 10,000 Rivian Waypoint charger network.


https://stories.rivian.com/charging...d=R00435FB54F54264FAD80742C27F02BCD69D3143AC0

-ON THE ROAD-

We are building the Rivian Adventure Network — a nationwide network of DC fast chargers capable of adding up to 140 miles of range in 20 minutes to the R1T and R1S. The Rivian Adventure Network is designed for quick recharges so you can keep moving. Connecting cities on popular routes across the US and Canada, the network also extends further into more remote destinations.

Los Angeles to Tahoe. Manhattan to the Adirondacks. San Francisco to Seattle. I-70 to The Rockies. Michigan’s UP via I-75. California’s Hwy 395. The entire Blue Ridge Parkway from Shenandoah National Park down to Great Smoky Mountains National Park. All these routes and more will begin opening this year.

The Rivian Adventure Network will grow to more than 3,500 fast chargers at over 600 sites by the end of 2023. Each site will have multiple chargers and will be conveniently located on highways and main roads, often by cafes and shops. These DC fast chargers will be for Rivian owners only, with details on pricing and associated programs coming soon.

Rivian Adventure Network will be powered by 100% renewable energy. Through partnerships with electricity providers, we will use wind and solar wherever possible, as well as Renewable Energy Certificates to ensure your vehicle is powered with clean electricity.

The Rivian Adventure Network

Exclusively for Rivian owners

3,500+ DC fast chargers at 600+ sites by end of 2023

Up to 140 miles of range in 20 minutes for R1T and R1S

Automatic charging, just pull up and plug in

In-vehicle nav automatically plans charging

Charging rates of over 200kW initially and 300kW+ in the future

Powered by 100% renewable energy

We are also installing thousands of Rivian Waypoint chargers across the US and Canada. Found at shopping centers, restaurants, hotels, campsites, parks and many other locations, these Level 2 AC chargers deliver up to 25 miles of range every hour for the R1T and R1S, letting you grab extra miles while you’re out having fun.

Over 10,000 Rivian Waypoints are planned across the US and Canada through 2023. Our first locations were announced this week — all 42 Colorado State Parks will have two Rivian Waypoints each, with installation starting in July. More announcements will follow soon.

You can locate Rivian Waypoints, monitor charge status and get notifications through your in-vehicle navigation and Rivian app.

Rivian Waypoints

10,000+ chargers planned by end of 2023

At shops, restaurants, hotels, parks and more

Automatic charging for Rivian drivers, just pull up and plug in

Open to the public for EVs using the J1772 plug

11.5 kW charging speed

Locate, monitor charge status and get notifications through your in-vehicle navigation and Rivian app

-AT HOME-

Charging your Rivian at home is really no different from how you typically charge your cell phone. Plug in at the end of the day and wake up charged.

Instead of running down your vehicle towards empty before stopping to refuel, you can top off each night so you have plenty of charge for the next day. If you forget to charge or choose to skip a few days — it’s ok. A daily commute won’t come near the amount of range you’ll have.

At home, the Rivian Wall Charger is the fastest way to charge the R1T and R1S. Delivering up to 25 miles of range every hour, drivers with our 300+ mile Large Pack can charge from near-empty back to full overnight.

You’ll be able to purchase the Rivian Wall Charger and set up installation when ordering your vehicle. If you finance your vehicle through us, you can also roll in the cost of the Wall Charger.

When it comes to getting ready, your Rivian Guide can help with everything — from finding the right spot for your charger to coordinating installation. After that, it’s as simple as pulling up and plugging in. The Rivian Wall Charger requires no maintenance, and you can monitor charging in real time through the Rivian app.



The Rivian Wall Charger

Up to 25 miles of range per hour of charge

11.5 kW charging speed

Wifi connectivity for OTA updates

Weatherproof for indoor or outdoor use

5-year warranty

Compatible with other EVs using the J1772 plug

Every Rivian also comes with our Portable Charger stored in the front trunk. It plugs into both a 240-volt outlet — used by many home clothes dryers and commonly found at RV parks — as well as a standard 120-volt wall outlet.

With a 240-volt outlet, up to 16 miles of charge is delivered each hour for the R1T and R1S. Drivers with our 300+ Large pack can go from about half charge to full overnight. When using a standard outlet, only a few miles are returned to the vehicle each hour. The 120-volt option is helpful in a pinch, but not likely your go-to daily charging method.



Whether topping off at home, making a quick stop across town or exploring far and wide, Rivian's charging solutions are the best way to keep your adventure going.


Our entire charging platform has been designed by Rivian engineers to deliver the fastest, most convenient way to charge your Rivian.

Through the Rivian app, you can monitor your vehicle’s charge status in real time. If you’re at home and your vehicle isn’t plugged in, we can send a reminder. You can also program your charger to turn on during off-peak hours for lower rates.

On the road, our in-vehicle navigation automatically routes you through any needed charging stops, prioritizing Rivian chargers as well as DC fast chargers from CCS partner networks. Simply enter your destination, our maps will plan charging for you.

We’re here for you. For many Rivian owners, this will be your first EV. We understand that it’s new and want to make sure you feel confident the first time you plug in. For any questions you might have about charging, please visit rivian.com/support for online help and to reach us by chat, phone or email. Our Customer Service Specialists are available Mon-Fri, 8 AM to 8 PM CST.

 

[solarmoo900]

I'll try one more time. Since EA is an open network, Rivian can already advertise that their vehicles can use the EA chargers. So the choice of doors is:

Door #1: Pay EA X dollars to put chargers at special outdoor on its schedule at locations which anyone can use.

Door #2: Pay X dollars plus a small premium to put chargers at special outdoor locations on your schedule that only owners of your adventure vehicles can use, a competitive advantage in the outdoor adventure vehicle space.

Just doesn't seem unreasonable to go through Door #2.

I'm confused what you mean by small premium. I agree with the other poster that described everything that they would need

1. The cost of designing, building, and installing those chargers
2. A support team to handle any issues with those chargers
3. A team of technicians to handle fixing all those broken ones

And that is just the tip of it. Odds are they are going to outsource all of that (outside the installation) since I doubt they are going to want to have full time employees across the country to handle these things so why not just outsource that work to EA (or chargepoint or literally any other company that doesn't require you to drive one brand of car) and have in those terms some demands for how the money is used. Even if they don't 100% get there way its gotta be cheaper.

They also make such a big deal about how "green" this all is but then don't get to the point that if they limit it to Rivian there is going to need to be more stations and more electrical wiring ran through these parks. If they really want a world where every car company has their own chargers then they either want giant parking lots or just less people to visit them cause their car isn't compatible.

That only works on destination chargers, not the supercharger network

 

[RedStallion]

I'm pretty sure when the volume of EVs gets high enough, the government will step in and mandate charging networks to be independent of car manufacturers, unless the companies make those changes on their own, which they will likely do.

 

[Maric]

Why? Porsche is owned by VW, which also owns Electrify America.

Porche drivers don't want to charge with plebs.

 

[DBC]

I'm confused what you mean by small premium. I agree with the other poster that described everything that they would need

1. The cost of designing, building, and installing those chargers
2. A support team to handle any issues with those chargers
3. A team of technicians to handle fixing all those broken ones

You think EA is going to support chargers they don't want and don't think they need for free? Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha! Of course not. EA is going to charge Rivian to do this, probably through the nose. Additionally, limiting the chargers to Rivian vehicles will substantially reduce the support costs. It's 10X more costly to support fifty vehicles than to support two, especially when the two share hardware.

You want chargers where no one else wants to put them? Do it yourself or pay 1.5X for someone else to do it. This is not the first time people have built out networks so the basic game is fairly well known.

You seem to think the folks at Rivian are fools who haven't considered the alternative you're proposing. They probably explored many options starting on day one. Given they have the numbers and more information there seems to be a bit of hubris in the air. In this regard, Rivian putting chargers in outdoor places that only outdoor oriented EV owners will go -- its target demographic -- makes way more sense to me that GM collaborating with EVgo to put 50 kW chargers in urban areas. It actually establishes the same advantage over its competition that Tesla has enjoyed with its DC charging network.

 

[solarmoo900]

You think EA is going to support chargers they don't want and don't think they need for free? Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha! Of course not. EA is going to charge Rivian to do this, probably through the nose.

I literally said that Rivian should pay, not that they should do it for free. Making a conjecture that EA would charge them anymore then its going to cost them isn't worth arguing over. They also don't have to go with EA, they could price shop with any other charging network.

And in the end, if the charger makes them money why wouldn't they support chargers? Like if they are going to the effort to build the charger which costs money, and then people actually use it which makes them money, it would be a terribly bad business decision to not support it.

Additionally, limiting the chargers to Rivian vehicles will substantially reduce the support costs. It's 10X more costly to support fifty vehicles than to support two, especially when the two share hardware.

I admit I don't know a ton about chargers but isn't it actually harder to change a standard to be non-conforming to support on single vehicle vs just, ya know, supporting the standard.

You want chargers where no one else wants to put them? Do it yourself or pay 1.5X for someone else to do it. This is not the first time people have built out networks so the basic game is fairly well known.

You seem to think the folks at Rivian are fools who haven't considered the alternative you're proposing. They probably explored many options starting on day one. Given they have the numbers and more information there seems to be a bit of hubris in the air. In this regard, Rivian putting chargers in outdoor places that only outdoor oriented EV owners will go -- its target demographic -- makes way more sense to me that GM collaborating with EVgo to put 50 kW chargers in urban areas. It actually establishes the same advantage over its competition that Tesla has enjoyed with its DC charging network.

Again, conjecture on how much it costs to do it themselves vs moving it to a third party. I don't think they are fools but companies do a lot of stupid things cause they think they are right, or because it provides them a competitive advantage. However a lot of people here, me included, are thinking that sometimes you do the thing that is maybe a little pricier to be more consumer friendly. Apple is getting sued over right to repair, I bet you they think they believe their target demographic doesn't care and that it provides them a competitive advantage in more controlled products, which is probably right, but it does harm people and that is why they are being sued. I am not saying Rivian is doing anything illegal but don't just assume that all companies always make the best and smartest decisions.

Having a charging network that only works with one car brand is anti-consumer friendly and anti-environmental. I'm again not a genius at companies but I can't imagine that people will suddenly be jumping on getting a Rivian because they have 600 chargers at parks. Also it just seems like a stupid decision when they could just go "this is free for Rivian, but X for all other cars" and then at least make some money instead of just straight up blocking them.

 

[DBC]

And in the end, if the charger makes them money why wouldn't they support chargers? Like if they are going to the effort to build the charger which costs money, and then people actually use it which makes them money, it would be a terribly bad business decision to not support it.

I admit I don't know a ton about chargers but isn't it actually harder to change a standard to be non-conforming to support on single vehicle vs just, ya know, supporting the standard.

I don't think they are fools but companies do a lot of stupid things cause they think they are right, or because it provides them a competitive advantage. However a lot of people here, me included, are thinking that sometimes you do the thing that is maybe a little pricier to be more consumer friendly.

Having a charging network that only works with one car brand is anti-consumer friendly and anti-environmental.

The issue for Rivian is that the demand for chargers in unpopulated areas which are not along major highways is going to be low. So low that the chargers won't make anyone money and aren't good sites for the mainstream companies which are building out their networks. On the other hand these locations will be highly desirable for the relatively small number of people looking for an electric outdoor adventure.

Since these potential customers are exactly Rivian's target demographic, the obvious solution is for Rivian to build charging stations in these locations. If Rivian then restricts these chargers to Rivian vehicles it's a win-win situation: customers get chargers where they want them but where they wouldn't otherwise be, and Rivian gets a competitive advantage. Remove the competitive advantage and Rivian has less incentive to build the chargers.

It will definitely be a competitive advantage. If you want an electric vehicle for outdoor adventures you could get a Rivain, an F-150 (based on a Rivian I think), a Cybertruck, or a Hummer. If only the Rivians have DC fast chargers near wilderness areas, which would you get? The vehicle that lets access these outdoor areas easily or the ones that force you to use campground plugs? As someone who likes going to more remote areas I can attest that driving electric can be a huge PITA with the existing charging infrastructure. The charging stations simply aren't designed for this purpose.

It won't be expensive to support a different standard because there isn't a different standard -- the chargers will support CCS. It's just that they won't work unless the vehicle plugging in is a Rivian.

Yes consumers would benefit more if companies didn't make it difficult to take a free ride -- a free ride is by definition "free", and free is a benefit. But whether it's ink for your printer or pods for you coffee maker, or here juice for your adventure vehicle, companies are in business to make money. I don't blame Tesla for not allowing other BEVs to charger at their chargers and I don't blame Rivian for doing the same thing.

However, having said that, only 3500 or the 13500 stations will be limited to Rivian vehicles. Ten thousand chargers will be public chargers that any vehicle with a J1772 connection can pay to use.

 

[DaMeatMan]

I am generally against regulation, but I think there needs to be one plug to charge them all. Once our roads are packed with BEVs, the average Joe/Jane will not be able to keep the differences straight. Back in the day, I knew someone who accidentally put gas in their diesel Toyota p/u. People will be super pissed when they coast into a charger empty only to find out it's the wrong plug.

I'm also not a huge fan of regulation (where it's not needed), but this is a case of infrastructure that will become critical to future of transportation. That said deciding on a standardized plug CCS (which manufacturers have already done) is just not enough. There needs to be mandates that if electricity is being dispensed it needs to satisfy some mandated minimums, like have a display, using that display to show some standardized pricing info and Kwh rate, as well as power dispensed, and there needs to be a card reader capable of accepting debit/credit payments at a minimum.

Bottom line we NEED to ensure a vehicle in need of fuel/electrons (can actually dispense fuel/electrons) period the end.

All the branding, loyalty rates perks or unique business models need to be SECONDARY, and dispensing fuel/electrons needs to be PRIMARY with a standardized means of doing so.

The proprietary mess we have today is just absolutely INSANE!

 

[ajmartineau]

Private networks are elitists and hurt the electrification progress of personal vehicles. Tesla made the right choice then, but it's not the right choice now. Having a CCS plug that doesn't work when you plug it in is worse than a plug that doesn't fit. People will not understand the differences.
I will not buy a Rivian. I will not use EVGo.

#OnePlugToChargeThemAll

 

[DBC]

The obvious point being missed is that if you require certain things of companies when they put in chargers you're likely not to get any chargers in circumstances like this. Would you be happier if you could charge at $10/kWh? Or should the government also regulate prices? Just curious how far you're willing to go here.

The proprietary mess we have today is just absolutely INSANE!

So the government should have set standards for computer ergonomics? You see a proprietary mess. I don't see any more of proprietary mess than the mess created when some parking garages are "monthly only" and I want to use it every once in a while.

Private networks are elitists and hurt the electrification progress of personal vehicles. Tesla made the right choice then, but it's not the right choice now. Having a CCS plug that doesn't work when you plug it in is worse than a plug that doesn't fit. People will not understand the differences.
I will not buy a Rivian. I will not use EVGo.

First things first. You're not buying a Rivian regardless of the charger situation and you'll use EVgo if you need to.

The idea that Tesla made the "right choice" but Rivian made the "wrong choice" is interesting. The choice in both cases is EXACTLY the same: No one is willing to build the chargers you need so you step up, build it yourself, and make it proprietary to give yourself a competitive advantage.

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