Rivian observation

[DYohn]

Sunday on my drive from Las Vegas home to Phoenix, I stopped in Kingman AZ to use the EA charger there. All four chargers were in use - three Rivians and a Kia. The Kia was at the 150Kw spot and the Rivians were all at 350Kw spots. I parked and checked their status - all the Rivians were in the 60-65% charged range and the Kia was at 85%. After about five minutes the Kia driver returned to his vehicle, gave a friendly wave, and left. I took the 150Kw spot.

The MME was at 37% when I plugged in. and the 150Kw system gave me a solid 115Kw I noticed the driver of the Rivian next to me was in the truck and struck up a conversation with them. Turns out they had just purchased the truck in Phoenix and were on their way to their home in Utah. He let me check out the truck, which was pretty nice inside. He also checked out the MME and was impressed with the look and feel of the interior. We chatted for a bit and I gave him some EV driving tips about using regen and charging just enough to get to the next charger rather than "topping off" like an ICE. It was a good conversation.

The wife and I walked across the street for a cup of coffee and when my EA app told me the MME was at 80% we went back. All three Rivians were still in place (and there was a Lightning and another MME waiting.) I unplugged and left. SO, either the Rivians have really big batteries or really slow charging rates since I went from 37% to 80% faster then they went from 65% to 80%. Or maybe they were all pushing to 100%. In any case, it was interesting.

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[mateo]

I think the R1T generally has a battery 1.5x bigger than the biggest MME battery.

 

[AZBill]

Sunday on my drive from Las Vegas home to Phoenix, I stopped in Kingman AZ to use the EA charger there. All four chargers were in use - three Rivians and a Kia. The Kia was at the 150Kw spot and the Rivians were all at 350Kw spots. I parked and checked their status - all the Rivians were in the 60-65% charged range and the Kia was at 85%. After about five minutes the Kia driver returned to his vehicle, gave a friendly wave, and left. I took the 150Kw spot.

The MME was at 37% when I plugged in. and the 150Kw system gave me a solid 115Kw I noticed the driver of the Rivian next to me was in the truck and struck up a conversation with them. Turns out they had just purchased the truck in Phoenix and were on their way to their home in Utah. He let me check out the truck, which was pretty nice inside. He also checked out the MME and was impressed with the look and feel of the interior. We chatted for a bit and I gave him some EV driving tips about using regen and charging just enough to get to the next charger rather than "topping off" like an ICE. It was a good conversation.

The wife and I walked across the street for a cup of coffee and when my EA app told me the MME was at 80% we went back. All three Rivians were still in place (and there was a Lightning and another MME waiting.) I unplugged and left. SO, either the Rivians have really big batteries or really slow charging rates since I went from 37% to 80% faster then they went from 65% to 80%. Or maybe they were all pushing to 100%. In any case, it was interesting.

Last time I was charging in Quartzsite, had a similar situation. That site is always busy. I only needed to get to 60% to get home to Phoenix, and took the last available charger and an E-Tron GT pulled up behind me to wait. When I finished, all three of the other vehicles were still charging, one was another Mach E (ER battery) and he was already at 90%. No way he needed that much to get to the next charger in either direction. One of the other cars was a Tesla, the guy had some free credits, but there are Super Chargers on the other side of the freeway!

 

[DYohn]

I think the R1T generally has a battery 1.5x bigger than the biggest MME battery.

Thanks. Yea my car is an extended range so it has the larger battery, and I really don't *need* more (although more would always be welcome.) I can see that the Rivian would want to have a larger capacity since they promote themselves as "off road adventure" vehicles. But still I was surprised at the difference - and happy we could get back on the road!

 

[SWO]

Sunday on my drive from Las Vegas home to Phoenix, I stopped in Kingman AZ to use the EA charger there. All four chargers were in use - three Rivians and a Kia. The Kia was at the 150Kw spot and the Rivians were all at 350Kw spots. I parked and checked their status - all the Rivians were in the 60-65% charged range and the Kia was at 85%. After about five minutes the Kia driver returned to his vehicle, gave a friendly wave, and left. I took the 150Kw spot.

The MME was at 37% when I plugged in. and the 150Kw system gave me a solid 115Kw I noticed the driver of the Rivian next to me was in the truck and struck up a conversation with them. Turns out they had just purchased the truck in Phoenix and were on their way to their home in Utah. He let me check out the truck, which was pretty nice inside. He also checked out the MME and was impressed with the look and feel of the interior. We chatted for a bit and I gave him some EV driving tips about using regen and charging just enough to get to the next charger rather than "topping off" like an ICE. It was a good conversation.

The wife and I walked across the street for a cup of coffee and when my EA app told me the MME was at 80% we went back. All three Rivians were still in place (and there was a Lightning and another MME waiting.) I unplugged and left. SO, either the Rivians have really big batteries or really slow charging rates since I went from 37% to 80% faster then they went from 65% to 80%. Or maybe they were all pushing to 100%. In any case, it was interesting.

Aside from battery size, the Rivian has good potential peak charging numbers, but a very inconsistent charge curve. There's some youtube videos documenting this. Between the two factors, it won't charge faster than a Mach-E. The Lightning charges faster as well.

 

[DYohn]

Last time I was charging in Quartzsite, had a similar situation. That site is always busy. I only needed to get to 60% to get home to Phoenix, and took the last available charger and an E-Tron GT pulled up behind me to wait. When I finished, all three of the other vehicles were still charging, one was another Mach E (ER battery) and he was already at 90%. No way he needed that much to get to the next charger in either direction. One of the other cars was a Tesla, the guy had some free credits, but there are Super Chargers on the other side of the freeway!

Drivers knowing "how much they need" at charging stations is still not well understood.

 

[AZBill]

Drivers knowing "how much they need" at charging stations is still not well understood.

That Rivian guy going to Utah is an example, but I will give him a break if this is his first EV. He will have to go through Vegas and there are many charging options there. He likely needed 50%, or even less, to get there with margin. The Rivian has slightly better range than the Mach E with ER battery, so in terms of battery % needed it would be about the same. Bigger battery but less efficient, so in terms of battery % it is nearly a wash.

 

[RickMachE]

Drivers knowing "how much they need" at charging stations is still not well understood.

And with "free charging" they'll make no effort to learn.

 

[moparguy]

Rivian battery pack is 135kWh, Mach E SR is 70kWh and ER is 91kWh so nearly double the size of Mach E regular sized battery, will take longer for sure.

 

[Tampamike]

That Rivian guy going to Utah is an example, but I will give him a break if this is his first EV. He will have to go through Vegas and there are many charging options there. He likely needed 50%, or even less, to get there with margin. The Rivian has slightly better range than the Mach E with ER battery, so in terms of battery % needed it would be about the same. Bigger battery but less efficient, so in terms of battery % it is nearly a wash.

A charger in hand is worth two down the road. I pretty much always charge to 80% out there on the highway unless home is my last stop. It probably costs me minutes(!), I know but you don’t know what’s going on at the next charger until you get there.

 

[DevSecOps]

it won't charge faster than a Mach-E

That is not true. The R1T, for example, will start out at 220kW and will normally slow to about 110kW after about 20-30% is delivered. The MME peaks at about 160kW (if you're extremely lucky on a perfect day) and slows within 3 minutes to 80-100kW. They used to have a yo-yo effect on charging due to derating but that appears to have been solved with an update. It's still not perfect but either way, it charges faster than the MachE.

Here's a video from yesterday showing the charging of an R1T in cold Colorado, no less:

And here's a charge curve of the R1T:

vs the MME Charge Curve:

 

[SWO]

That is not true. The R1T, for example, will start out at 220kW and will normally slow to about 110kW after about 20-30% is delivered. The MME peaks at about 160kW and slows within 3 minutes to 80-100kW. They used to have a yo-yo effect on charging due to derating but that appears to have been solved with an update. It's still not perfect but either way, it charges faster than the MachE.

Here's a video from yesterday showing the charging of an R1T in cold Colorado, no less:

And here's a charge curve of the R1T:

My comment may have been ambiguous, but I meant the Mach-E will charge [to 80%] faster.

1. So an update yesterday(?) might have kind-of fixed the Rivian yo-yo'ing? Seems like there are still all sorts of thermal issues.
2. Mach E with an ER pack doesn't dip below 100kw until 55% in my experience.
3. A Mach-E at 80kw is going to finish charging faster than a Rivian at 110kw.
4. Tom Moloughney has (had) both a Rivian and a Lightning. He says the Lightning will beat the Rivian charging every time. F150 Lightning ER pack does 15-80% in 41 minutes per Ford. Mach-E does 10-80% in 45 minutes per Ford. They reach 80% in about the same time.

 

[roamtheworld]

A charger in hand is worth two down the road. I pretty much always charge to 80% out there on the highway unless home is my last stop. It probably costs me minutes(!), I know but you don’t know what’s going on at the next charger until you get there.

This is our life in Texas I never leave without at least 80% (extreme heat I go to 90%) because everywhere you go it's at least 75 mph and we have large areas without DCFC. We've made many trips without even a L2 charger available at our destination. I will continue to complain about Lubbock not having any CCS DCFC (they do have Tesla super chargers)! Our longest trip we had to visit three L2 chargers just to find one working

 

[DYohn]

A charger in hand is worth two down the road. I pretty much always charge to 80% out there on the highway unless home is my last stop. It probably costs me minutes(!), I know but you don’t know what’s going on at the next charger until you get there.

I also try to take etiquette into account. If there are people behind me waiting I'll always do the minimum I need. If the demand is low then sure, go to 80%. But that's just me.

 

[DevSecOps]

My comment may have been ambiguous, but I meant the Mach-E will charge [to 80%] faster.

1. So an update yesterday(?) might have kind-of fixed the Rivian yo-yo'ing? Seems like there are still all sorts of thermal issues.
2. Mach E with an ER pack doesn't dip below 100kw until 55% in my experience.
3. A Mach-E at 80kw is going to finish charging faster than a Rivian at 110kw.
4. Tom Moloughney has (had) both a Rivian and a Lightning. He says the Lightning will beat the Rivian charging every time. F150 Lightning ER pack does 15-80% in 41 minutes per Ford. Mach-E does 10-80% in 45 minutes per Ford. They reach 80% in about the same time.

Ok well yeah, I didn't assume you would be comparing it based on percentages, that makes little sense to do. A garden hose will obviously fill a bath tub quicker than a pool. kW delivered is much more than the MME which is really what matters. The R1T can pull down more power than the MME or the F150 in the same amount of time. Being that it has a bigger pack it will possibly take longer, but you can go further. 80% of charge is 100 miles more for the R1T based on EPA and they actually have accurate numbers unlike Ford.

Many of us have documented the charge curve for the MME in numerous places on this forum and I've never seen it sustain 100+ kW for 55%. The charge curve that we currently have is well discussed, plotted and tested here: https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...-charge-curve-and-maybe-power-delivery.13747/

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