RR FE - POWERTRAIN FAULT - Update 3/26 - Issue Identified

jparduhn70

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There's another guy here who only experiences charging issues when using the mobile charger at his house. His electrical checks out - it really does seem that there are errors that only occur based on location. It is bizarre. Probably best to move?
Wow, I hadn't read this thread at all! I've got to give it to you @machefan, you must have nerves of steel. My charging issue at home pales in comparison. At least the dealer gave you a loaner while you're waiting. I have to drive a 2008 Subaru Impreza that's my daughter's soon-to-be daily driver until further notice. :(





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machefan

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My home is an EMI chamber, I am considering renting it out for testing.

A glimpse into my home.... I am an IT tech guy, what can I say...

3 Access Points (UBNT) - One SSID, they cover my entire home
28~ Z-Wave PLUS devices (Light Switches / motion / door locks and sensors)
Zigbee devices, I forget how many
Chamberlin Hub with two garage doors talking to it
50 + Network devices half are wireless etc.
5 security cameras POE / 1 RING DB
2 wall IPADS / 5 Echo's etc etc
2 HVAC gateways which are wireless to 2 wall controllers
1 Directv Gateway for wireless video to 2 TV's
1 Proview Hub (shades)
2 Hubitat Hubs
1 Sonos Hub

Electrical Main Breaker near the right rear quarter panel of the MME
Electrical feeder cable from MAIN to breaker panel in basement which run parallel to the garage inside wall on the right of the MME
50 AMP outlet 3 ft in front of the MME

Hmm, .... This sounds bad on paper...

No I am not moving and no to the other stuff :)
 
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kdryden99

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My home is an EMI chamber, I am considering renting it out for testing.

A glimpse into my home.... I am an IT tech guy, what can I say...

3 Access Points (UBNT) - One SSID, they cover my entire home
28~ Z-Wave PLUS devices (Light Switches / motion / door locks and sensors)
Zigbee devices, I forget how many
Chamberlin Hub with two garage doors talking to it
50 + Network devices half are wireless etc.
5 security cameras POE / 1 RING DB
2 wall IPADS / 5 Echo's etc etc
2 HVAC gateways which are wireless to 2 wall controllers
1 Directv Gateway for wireless video to 2 TV's
1 Proview Hub (shades)
2 Hubitat Hubs
1 Sonos Hub

Electrical Main Breaker near the right rear quarter panel of the MME
Electrical feeder cable from MAIN to breaker panel in basement which run parallel to the garage inside wall on the right of the MME
50 AMP outlet 3 ft in front of the MME

Hmm, .... This sounds bad on paper...

No I am not moving and no to the other stuff :)
I am also an IT guy but I am so busy fixing everybody else's issues I just want simple at home so everything works. Maybe you should do the same? Throw everything out and keep the car. Maybe no more issues ;)
 

Accord07

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Update 3/2:

I am working with Ford, making progress. My issue appears to be localized to my garage as I am able to reproduce it. If drive away from my home, park, going into a store and return the Service and Powertrain fault messages clear. When I return home, in my driveway it does not happen, however as soon as I pull into my garage and return to the MME the two errors reappear.

Powertrain Fault (APP)
Service Vehicle Soon (Dash)
Now you have an excuse to buy a new house!
 

Mirak

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My home is an EMI chamber, I am considering renting it out for testing.

A glimpse into my home.... I am an IT tech guy, what can I say...

3 Access Points (UBNT) - One SSID, they cover my entire home
28~ Z-Wave PLUS devices (Light Switches / motion / door locks and sensors)
Zigbee devices, I forget how many
Chamberlin Hub with two garage doors talking to it
50 + Network devices half are wireless etc.
5 security cameras POE / 1 RING DB
2 wall IPADS / 5 Echo's etc etc
2 HVAC gateways which are wireless to 2 wall controllers
1 Directv Gateway for wireless video to 2 TV's
1 Proview Hub (shades)
2 Hubitat Hubs
1 Sonos Hub

Electrical Main Breaker near the right rear quarter panel of the MME
Electrical feeder cable from MAIN to breaker panel in basement which run parallel to the garage inside wall on the right of the MME
50 AMP outlet 3 ft in front of the MME

Hmm, .... This sounds bad on paper...

No I am not moving and no to the other stuff :)
Wow. Only an IT guy... you must really love troubleshooting stuff. In all seriousness, I kinda have to wonder if there's some interference at play. Have you tried disconnecting every device one at a time?
 

Gimme_my_MME

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My home is an EMI chamber, I am considering renting it out for testing.

A glimpse into my home.... I am an IT tech guy, what can I say...

3 Access Points (UBNT) - One SSID, they cover my entire home
28~ Z-Wave PLUS devices (Light Switches / motion / door locks and sensors)
Zigbee devices, I forget how many
Chamberlin Hub with two garage doors talking to it
50 + Network devices half are wireless etc.
5 security cameras POE / 1 RING DB
2 wall IPADS / 5 Echo's etc etc
2 HVAC gateways which are wireless to 2 wall controllers
1 Directv Gateway for wireless video to 2 TV's
1 Proview Hub (shades)
2 Hubitat Hubs
1 Sonos Hub

Electrical Main Breaker near the right rear quarter panel of the MME
Electrical feeder cable from MAIN to breaker panel in basement which run parallel to the garage inside wall on the right of the MME
50 AMP outlet 3 ft in front of the MME

Hmm, .... This sounds bad on paper...

No I am not moving and no to the other stuff :)
Have you tried turning it off and turning it on again?
 

CHeil402

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My home is an EMI chamber, I am considering renting it out for testing.

A glimpse into my home.... I am an IT tech guy, what can I say...

3 Access Points (UBNT) - One SSID, they cover my entire home
28~ Z-Wave PLUS devices (Light Switches / motion / door locks and sensors)
Zigbee devices, I forget how many
Chamberlin Hub with two garage doors talking to it
50 + Network devices half are wireless etc.
5 security cameras POE / 1 RING DB
2 wall IPADS / 5 Echo's etc etc
2 HVAC gateways which are wireless to 2 wall controllers
1 Directv Gateway for wireless video to 2 TV's
1 Proview Hub (shades)
2 Hubitat Hubs
1 Sonos Hub

Electrical Main Breaker near the right rear quarter panel of the MME
Electrical feeder cable from MAIN to breaker panel in basement which run parallel to the garage inside wall on the right of the MME
50 AMP outlet 3 ft in front of the MME

Hmm, .... This sounds bad on paper...

No I am not moving and no to the other stuff :)
None of that stuff seems too bad. Wi-Fi, Z-wave and Zigbee are all relatively low power intentional radiators in the ISM band. All of which is typical and should be expected, especially since the car has its own Wi-Fi hotspot.

If you're having issues without it being plugged in (conducted interference) then there's likely a possible source of unintended radiated interference. Electric motors or anything that spark can create impulse wideband interference. If not properly shielded against it, it can certainly get picked up by CPU's in the car or picked up by cabling in the car acting as an antenna. AM radio stations can certainly cause havoc if in a resonance condition with surrounding conducting stuff.

If there isn't a better pattern to it (like when someone uses a microwave), then further testing would be needed with a spectrum analyzer.

Hopefully Ford can reject the signal noise through software.

I have a similar amount of stuff and a 10 kW solar inverter in the garage that definitely interferes with my garage door remote. I'll be interested to see what happens when I get my car.
 
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back_at_it_19

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Update 3/2:

I am working with Ford, making progress. My issue appears to be localized to my garage as I am able to reproduce it. If drive away from my home, park, going into a store and return the Service and Powertrain fault messages clear. When I return home, in my driveway it does not happen, however as soon as I pull into my garage and return to the MME the two errors reappear.

Powertrain Fault (APP)
Service Vehicle Soon (Dash)
That’s really kinda crazy. GPS or radio signal (WiFi, etc.).
 
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machefan

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Wow, I hadn't read this thread at all! I've got to give it to you @machefan, you must have nerves of steel. My charging issue at home pales in comparison. At least the dealer gave you a loaner while you're waiting. I have to drive a 2008 Subaru Impreza that's my daughter's soon-to-be daily driver until further notice. :(
My first issue was more nerving which was the RED ring of charing which appears to be resolved, the current one appears to be more cosmetic in nature so less annoying.

I am able to get it to clear such as going to the store, shopping and returning to the MME. When I return home and only in my garage, I get the two errors again. This happens after starting up the MME again from being off.

However the MME operates as normal, which is why I am calling it cosmetic in nature. I still want it resolved, but I am not nearly as upset now since my MME in back in my stable.

The message appears in error in my case or I would think I would be stuck....

Ford might think about adding a few more messages with more info....

The one in the FordApp sounds very serious "Powertrain Failure", the one on the dash says take your time "Service Vehicle Soon", no rush. They contradict each other in my opinion.

My house while sounds like a lot of devices is more and more common in 2021 with home automation becoming very popular. There are also many of our daily devices working off wireless and transmitting.

Screen Shot 2021-03-02 at 5.21.21 PM.png


Screen Shot 2021-03-02 at 6.51.36 PM.png
 
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machefan

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None of that stuff seems too bad. Wi-Fi, Z-wave and Zigbee are all relatively low power intentional radiators in the ISM band. All of which is typical and should be expected, especially since the car has its own Wi-Fi hotspot.

If you're having issues without it being plugged in (conducted interference) then there's likely a possible source of unintended radiated interference. Electric motors or anything that spark can create impulse wideband interference. If not properly shielded against it, it can certainly get picked up by CPU's in the car or picked up by cabling in the car acting as an antenna. AM radio stations can certainly cause havoc if in a resonance condition with surrounding conducting stuff.

If there isn't a better pattern to it (like when someone uses a microwave), then further testing would be needed with a spectrum analyzer.

Hopefully Ford can reject the signal noise through software.

I have a similar amount of stuff and a 10 kW solar inverter in the garage that definitely interferes with my garage door remote. I'll be interested to see what happens when I get my car.
Agreed, will figure it out, I am actually not the only person with this issue, there is another forum member. I could go and turn things off but id rather not, it disturbs my home. Also I would have to do this one by one, get error, move car, wait a few minutes, move car back and start all over. I also rather Ford figure this out for all who experience this. So I am leaving it as-is, everything else works around me and my Nissan Leaf used to occupy this garage space and never tossed an error of such. Ford will fix it, it's most likely a software fix they already have in the works.

My bet is that a message needs to be resent a few times if lost. I think after tomorrow they will have a better idea of what error messages exactly are being generated.

Thanks for everyone chiming in and sticking with me. We are getting closer!!
 

CHeil402

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Agreed, will figure it out, I am actually not the only person with this issue, there is another forum member. I could go and turn things off but id rather not, it disturbs my home. Also I would have to do this one by one, get error, move car, wait a few minutes, move car back and start all over. I also rather Ford figure this out for all who experience this. So I am leaving it as-is, everything else works around me and my Nissan Leaf used to occupy this garage space and never tossed an error of such. Ford will fix it, it's most likely a software fix they already have in the works.

My bet is that a message needs to be resent a few times if lost. I think after tomorrow they will have a better idea of what error messages exactly are being generated.

Thanks for everyone chiming in and sticking with me. We are getting closer!!
If you get this error every time and only in your garage, if you want to take the blunt force approach to prove it's something in your house, you could flip the main breaker to your house to cut power to everything and see if it happens. That would be easier than troubleshooting it to a device level.

And then while you feel good about proving the problem to yourself you can go around resetting all your clocks.
 

JSOrange97

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If you get this error every time and only in your garage, if you want to take the blunt force approach to prove it's something in your house, you could flip the main breaker to your house to cut power to everything and see if it happens. That would be easier than troubleshooting it to a device level.

And then while you feel good about proving the problem to yourself you can go around resetting all your clocks.
My guess is that wouldn’t work... the UPS’s would kick in to keep things running. At least that’s the way things are set up at our house.
 
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machefan

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If you get this error every time and only in your garage, if you want to take the blunt force approach to prove it's something in your house, you could flip the main breaker to your house to cut power to everything and see if it happens. That would be easier than troubleshooting it to a device level.

And then while you feel good about proving the problem to yourself you can go around resetting all your clocks.
Was thinking about going that approach as well, but have plan that not to disrupt the folks at home working. It has to work, if not it's NJ toxic radiation emitting from my garage floor :)
 

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