Safety Recall 22S41 - 2021-2022 Mach E - HVBJB Recall [high voltage battery main contactors may overheat]

[OH2AZ2OH]

This is what I really want to know. Have past incidents of DCFC and flooring it without the updated software weakened or damaged the HVBJB in some way, making it more likely to fail in the future?

About 150 pages ago, possibly in another thread, someone mentioned that a less severe version of welding was pitting on the relays. If pitted, that increases the resistance, making failure more likely. If the software fix includes monitoring resistance of the HVBJB, which they say it does, then it should know if this state exists. What happens next though? Stop Safely Now on first boot with new software? Some sort of restricted power mode with Service Required warning? Some combination of both depending on pre-determined resistance levels?

On the "bright" side, given that pitting makes welding much more likely, I can't imagine that someone managed to pit them and then changed their driving/charging/whatever practices enough to not have a failure.

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[RonTCat]

Unfortunately there is no polite way to say this, but yes, you are wrong.

 

[Gimme_my_MME]

Unfortunately there is no polite way to say this, but yes, you are wrong.

I don't know Ron, that sure seemed pretty polite to me

 

[Mach1E]

Because everyone is GUESSING what the issue is.

Now if Ford comes out and says something like that, then we can draw some conclusions. But right now we are just speculating.

But this is the same type of scientific research that concludes that flies are made from dead meat.

From the tiny sample size we have of the issues that showed up on the forum. I don’t remember a single case that resulted after someone one flooring the car.

Most seemed to be just driving normally.

Some were parked in the garage.

Honestly no clue where the 0-60 theory came from other than people assuming that it causes heat.

But again, like I said earlier, if metal is getting welded, it’s not normal heat. Likely a bad connection/design causing arching.

Ever accidentally touched the side of an outlet with a screwdriver when you thought the power was off? I have…… instantly melts the screwdriver. And that’s only 110v!

 

[Guss-E 2021]

Thanks for all the info posted here. My MME PAWD was built in April 2022 (I got it on May 26th) so I'm at the tail end of the affected production run. I have yet to DC fast charge and, being so new, have been driving rather like a grandmother (no open pedal events). The car is SO nice on the newly paved roads around my house. A VIN search says I'm not affected but I'll still feel better with the OTA update and possible part swap when it comes in.

 

[RickMachE]

Thanks for all the info posted here. My MME PAWD was built in April 2022 (I got it on May 26th) so I'm at the tail end of the affected production run. I have yet to DC fast charge and, being so new, have been driving rather like a grandmother (no open pedal events). The car is SO nice on the newly paved roads around my house. A VIN search says I'm not affected but I'll still feel better with the OTA update and possible part swap when it comes in.

Your VIN search has told you nothing. Yesterday the only place it showed was ETIS. You need to wait for the FordPass app to show you that you have a recall, also on Ford.com.

 

[RonTCat]

Because everyone is GUESSING what the issue is.

Now if Ford comes out and says something like that, then we can draw some conclusions. But right now we are just speculating.

But this is the same type of scientific research that concludes that flies are made from dead meat.

From the tiny sample size we have of the issues that showed up on the forum. I don’t remember a single case that resulted after someone one flooring the car.

Most seemed to be just driving normally.

Some were parked in the garage.

Honestly no clue where the 0-60 theory came from other than people assuming that it causes heat.

But again, like I said earlier, if metal is getting welded, it’s not normal heat. Likely a bad connection/design causing arching.

Ever accidentally touched the side of an outlet with a screwdriver when you thought the power was off? I have…… instantly melts the screwdriver. And that’s only 110v!

I agree, I don't see any reason 0-60 runs would cause damage. If the components were on the brink of failure anyway, if would be more coincidence that you received "Stop Safely Now" at that point.

 

[OH2AZ2OH]

Having a hard time with the overheating noted for it to stick open. For me -28C plugged in to L2 when it happens just sitting not being used. Makes you wonder how it would overheated in that condition more like freezing open.

I have had the sobdmc, becm and hvjb changed already on this vehicle but it was with the older parts (HVJB old part number on invoice). Play it again Sam? Deja vu? Or some software fix that cripples the car? None sound gr8.

I can tell you how throttling this car for a fix will go over. Maybe not for a huge buffer or a ridiculously poor unengineered charging curve but if there was ever a straw reducing power and its drive performance maybe it. The reason I have put up with this car is because it drives so well and now there is speculation they may take that away also OTA? Didn't pay the extra for a bolt. Want to see some go on a rant just start reducing performance and see how that gets spread. That is not a fix it is a slap in the face. Turning off auto updates tomorrow morning until I see how this goes.

Your situation definitely is outside of the wording of the recall. Ford knows that there are other conditions that can cause this failure, but they might not know exactly what those are yet. This software update will be monitoring HVBJB resistance and sending that info back to Ford, which hopefully will allows the engineers to piece together what happened in your car.

 

[Stang68]

The recall has now been posted to the NHTSA website with lots of details.

They confirm it's only a software update:



And every listed component (all 50 of them) in the attached PDF is software - no physical parts mentioned.

The document also confirms updates will be available in July (not just the vague "Q3" we heard yesterday).

It also describes what the software will do:



It sounds to me like this will reduce power only when a dangerous situation with the contactors has been detected - I imagine when you've got the combination of DCFC and flooring the pedal that Ford mentioned yesterday.

On the bottom of page 10, it says the problem was corrected in production simply by introducing new software on May 25, 2022. The speculation about different hardware being used in post-May 25 builds seems to have been unfounded:



Other interesting historical details:



* VOQ = Vehicle Owner Questionnaire

Thank you for this, very informative.

Even if this OTA doesn't result in a reduction of power in every day driving (or even somewhat spirited driving), it does not bode well for us GT owners getting the 5 second limit lifted, ever.

 

[RosarioM]

The recall has now been posted to the NHTSA website with lots of details.

They confirm it's only a software update:



And every listed component (all 50 of them) in the attached PDF is software - no physical parts mentioned.

The document also confirms updates will be available in July (not just the vague "Q3" we heard yesterday).

It also describes what the software will do:



It sounds to me like this will reduce power only when a dangerous situation with the contactors has been detected - I imagine when you've got the combination of DCFC and flooring the pedal that Ford mentioned yesterday.

On the bottom of page 10, it says the problem was corrected in production simply by introducing new software on May 25, 2022. The speculation about different hardware being used in post-May 25 builds seems to have been unfounded:



Other interesting historical details:



* VOQ = Vehicle Owner Questionnaire

Um... does this meat us GT owners go from 5 seconds to 4 seconds of real performance? :/

 

[agoldman]

Doesn't a "software fix" feel like a bandaid? I mean if the part overheats to begin with, maybe the overall design spec is flawed?

 

[Logal727]

Only 286 out of 49,000 or 100,000, whatever way you look at it. This is very small. I’m glad Ford is acknowledging the problem with that small amount.

 

[billy_at]

Doesn't a "software fix" feel like a bandaid? I mean if the part overheats to begin with, maybe the overall design spec is flawed?

We really can't say at this point. It could be a software issue that unintentionally pushes the hardware beyond its published limits. Fix the software issue, and you're fine. We don't know yet.

 

[billy_at]

Um... does this meat us GT owners go from 5 seconds to 4 seconds of real performance? :/

No, probably not. We have no reason to believe the two are linked.

The scenario that brings about this HVBJB problem is unusual and rare. It doesn't happen to most cars, and it doesn't happen in most usage patterns (by "most" I quite literally mean 99.5%). The recall says power will be limited - temporarily - only if this scenario is detected.

Reducing performance across the board is not what the recall describes, and there's little reason to think that it would do anything to address the problem. And remember that this is not a GT-only problem.

 

[breeves002]

Thank you for this, very informative.

Even if this OTA doesn't result in a reduction of power in every day driving (or even somewhat spirited driving), it does not bode well for us GT owners getting the 5 second limit lifted, ever.

I believe it is most of our opinions here the 5 second limit is due to the battery pack design. It just can't handle that kind of power output that long due to heat. Not gonna lie the bus bars and wires look really small to be handling 1000A+. They really should have made a GT specific battery pack IMO but hey thats expensive.

Ford will never admit it though

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