Safety Recall 22S41 - 2021-2022 Mach E - HVBJB Recall [high voltage battery main contactors may overheat]

[RickMachE]

Wait, isn't it all US VINS? Mr. Farley said " This action affects 48,924 vehicles in the U.S." That is approximately EVERY electric Mustang sold in the U.S, is it not?

My apologies if this was clearly explained in post #1017...

The actual number of cars affected is not yet known, because the actual list of VINs has not been released, which is why the recall isn't showing in Ford.com, FordPass, or on the NHTSA website.

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[DrJay32]

Then cancel your order, take your money elsewhere, and have a nice life. Problem solved.

 

[phil]

The actual number of cars affected is not yet known...

The Ford Media Center claims to know the actual number of U.S. cars affected. It's 48,924.

https://media.ford.com/content/ford...ang-mach-e-recall-faq.html?utm_source=Twitter

 

[ZuleMME]

The Ford Media Center claims to know the actual number of U.S. cars affected. It's 48,924.

https://media.ford.com/content/ford...ang-mach-e-recall-faq.html?utm_source=Twitter

Pretty certain your guess (also my guess) is correct (It's all of them!):

 

[billy_at]

A. The design and part-to-part variation of the high voltage battery main relay switch is not robust to the heat generated during DC fast charging and multiple wide open pedal events.

This phrase from the FAQ may explain why some people have the problem and other people are fine, despite doing DCFC and flooring it: "part to part variation." Maybe the manufacturer of the individual part has consistency issues, so some relays work fine and others are prone to failure, but it's not easy to tell which is which. That is, it's not as simple as just looking at the lot number. The software telemetry can, at a minimum, help identify the problem parts so they can be replaced.

 

[RickMachE]

The Ford Media Center claims to know the actual number of U.S. cars affected. It's 48,924.

https://media.ford.com/content/ford...ang-mach-e-recall-faq.html?utm_source=Twitter

As you noted, that's all of them sold in the US we believe. However, you can't lookup your VIN on the Ford site, FordPass, or NHTSA. Why? Because the list of actual VINs affected isn't out. Therefore, it's likely that either it's less than all, or all get a software update and then a smaller amount get new HVBJBs. Looking things up is a waste of time now.

 

[RWG]

This pending recall certainly raises a lot of questions/concerns. While we have not experienced any HVBJBL vehicle failures, we took vehicle delivery on 1/9/2022, I did notice some anomalies with the EVSE charging equipment over time. On a previous post I suggested to all to frequently check temperatures of the ESVE AC equipment/components during charging sessions. I check temps just about every week.

My garage /EVSE is the Ford OEM version, made by Webasto, with a 4 ft Pigtail, NEMA 1450, plugged into a NEMA 1450 receptacle on a 50 Amp circuit breaker circuit. I noticed from day one, that during a charge session @ 40 amp draw, there was a slight temp rise in the 1450 molded plug, pigtail and power cord that plugs into the car. Based on my electrical systems repair experience, I deemed a slight temp rise as normal. However, over time the 1450 power cord plug continued to register higher and higher temps. It went from a 10 degree rise, in a 70 degree ambient, in January to over a 70 degree rise in May, to approximately 150 degrees. This suggested a bad connection somewhere in the wall receptacle or inside the molded plug. I checked the wall plug connections, found nothing so then I replaced the molded plug and the problem went away. Therefore: There must have been a compromised wire connection inside the molded plug. ( Which was made in China . . . . . not surprised.)

Conclusion/concerns: IT appears I avoided an eventual electrical disaster by changing out the 1450 plug. I am 100% convinced that if I had not replaced the bad molded 1450 plug, it would eventually had a major thermal failure. But now I am left wondering about the high voltage circuitry inside the vehicle, where I cannot monitor component temps. It is obvious there is a problem with the HVBJB and it is heat related but what we do not know root cause: What type of connections does this device have? What is the source of the overheating problem? Is it mechanical connection assembly error or a design error or both? Is this a component design error? Not sure, but my own extensive electrical systems repair experience has taught me the problem could be one or the other or both.

I would be curious to see a HVBJB and electrical circuit schematic. From what I have read it sounds like an electromechanical device, like a typical electrical contactor relay. i.e. I read that the "contactors may melt/fuse". This is a typical electrical contactor type failure. However, with most , high voltage equipment, systems controlled by a contactor, they are usually easily accessible for eventual replacement and it is a 100% certainty, in typical high voltage/high amp load systems, the relay contactors will fail at some point. Therefore, did Ford engineers, in there great wisdom, foolishly bury this device in a place on the vehicle that is labor intensive to replace/repair? I guess we will find out.

As I speculate the root cause and possible solutions these thoughts occur to me: When in charging mode and/or driving mode does all high voltage battery power flow through the HVBJB? If it does than this device should have a design criteria to handle an extremely wide amperage load, i.e. up to 50 amps or more during L2 charging, much higher during DC Super charging sessions, and probably much higher during extreme vehicle acceleration. Therefore, if the design is minimal, it is going to constantly heat up and cool ( thermal cycling) under normal use. And this means, based on my electrical systems repair experience, the HVBJB connections/conditions should be routinely inspected/serviced. At this point, I am not aware of any such service recommendations for this vehicle.

Also, based on what I have read, this problem is not inherent in all MME's, but the problem does seem to occur with enough frequency to cause alarm. This suggests a possible assembly or use driven root cause, but in any case, it must be resolved.

As the Ford engineering team muddles through this problem, there will probably be several resolution options considered. If indeed all power flows through the HVBJB, and it is failing because of overheating the logical solution is to reduce amp/circuit load and therefore reduce the heat. However, that creates a host of compromising issues:

• You can lower the charging rate, via software, but now it will take longer to charge the batteries and that will negatively impact the user experience/expectations.
• You can lower amperage loads during acceleration, to control HVBJB temp, but that will reduce vehicle performance, i.e. more user experience disappointments and a PR disaster because everyone in the EV market spaces brags about acceleration. .
• You can design, install a new improved HVBJB, that can handle a wider operational amperage, heat range and add temp sensors, along with analytical software to warn/predict failures. This means the recall includes a major parts replacement which will be time consuming , expensive and it will take time to develop/test.
• You can address possible assembly/manufacturing errors at the plant or vendors. This normally creates a manufacturing versus engineering "witch hunt" as the Ford organization tries to place internal or external blame for the problem. This will just slow down the eventual solution.
• Ford could locate this device in an easily accessible place for routine service. This will probably be very difficult/expensive on legacy vehicles and would be a redesign on new production.

Admittedly, all of this is just my speculations, based on what I have experienced and what I have read. Time will tell what the final solutions will be. However, this unfortunate episode for the MME just reinforces my future plans to NOT own this vehicle past the warranty period. There will surely be continued EV design and technology improvements over the next couple of years and I do not want to be stuck with legacy technology issues.

What I am going to do, now, just in case..

• Limit charging rates to 40 amps or less. I am considering resetting my EVSE to 35 amps.
• Avoid DC fast chargers. Those things push a lot of power, fast, back into the car and that creates heat.
• Closely watch this Forum for updates. Participants on this Forum all tell their "truth". They are not hindered by any corporate responsibilities/concerns/liabilities.
• Avoid jamming the accelerator, putting excessive load on the HVBJBL.

Question: Does anyone have any detail information and/or photos the the HVBJBL? I would live to see how it is designed, hooked up, integrated into the system.

PS: To all my Forum colleagues that think by concerns are overblown. My lifelong professional experience as a Global Product Manager for a multinational, multi-billion dollar company taught me that sh*t happens. People, organizations, make mistakes.

Consider these questionable design/quality issues with the MME:

• You can't tow/pull this car from the rear. No pull points - major design mistake.
• There was an early recall because they did not glue the windshields or the roof glass properly. This was a major assembly/manufacturing error.
• There was a major problem with charging the Low voltage, 12v battery, that left a lot of users stranded. This was either a component or system design error.
• Now there is an elusive, yet to be resolved serious problem with the HVBJBL. This problem will eventually be resolved, but it will take time.

Good Luck to all.

 

[Blue highway]

I’m wondering how the SOBDMC will monitor contactor temp because as far as I know there isn’t a temp sensor in it. They must be trying to model the temp profile in software?

BECM measures voltage on both sides of the contactors and current though the pack, so it could measure resistance with additional calculations.

Also wondering if this is a final fix or a stopgap like the Bolt until hardware replacement is possible.

Voltage drop across the contactor and current through the contactor will allow a calculation of temp rise.

 

[Thunderbuck]

I wouldn't read too much into running it right now since I have a feeling ALL Mach E VINs for the US were added to the stop sale and it will not be until the official recall notice is generated to owners that the actual VINs that are affected will be known.

I'm Canadian and my '21 Select shows up on the list.

 

[timbop]

Absolutely there is a problem, and Ford is absolutely trying to avoid recalling every Mach E made. Absolutely Ford underspec'd the contactor OR the contactor doesn't meet specs AND the contactor wasn't pushed hard enough in testing. Considering almost everything on this car was designed from scratch things like this shouldn't be a surprise.

HOWEVER, before we all freak out let's see what actually happens with the software fix. Things may be just fine with it. If not, THEN we can get the torches and pitchforks.

I think how bad this turns out to be will be dictated by how gimped the cars become with the software "fix"

Not to bad - occasional and brief power or DC charge speed cuts. Wouldn't be great, but most would live with it.

THIS is the crux of it: nobody outside of Ford knows how often the current will be limited, nor by how much. Screaming that the 5 second rule will be reduced to 1 and suggesting Ford is dumb enough to permanently reduce the horsepower by 80% is ridiculous.

OUCH! So your car was built...but then did not ship for 3 months? I am wondering if this whole recall/stop sale thing is going to mean a complete shutdown of production/shipping? I am losing hope I will ever see mine and thinking about putting in reservations for other cars as a hedge.

They've been putting the new software in production cars since May 25th. The cars that are being held right now were built before that and will be updated at dealerships. Ford and the dealerships are in the business of selling cars, so it is in their best interest to get cars delivered ASAP.

 

[veronicablack]

68 pages? Can anyone honestly say they’ve been reading every post in this dumpster fire?

The summer is slow season in my industry. This has been great!

 

[Kamuelaflyer]

There are some on the threads that obviously are negative MME. I don't know why their here, but read their post history and you'll see an 'Clown Show', Disaster, NHTSA, and multiple non-value added comments other than the sky is falling, quick go buy another EV.
From Consumer Reports, to KBB, to J.D. Power, and numerous other independent sources the Mach E is a hit with owners and among the top three most satisfying cars in the U.S..

We've got a First Edition, and a GT at the dealer with a stop sale. After 17 months with ours, it's so good we're getting a second one.

So listen to a large variety of independent vehicle satisfaction companies that track customer satisfaction or the same screen names who's history of posts are mostly negative to Ford.

Oh stop being so sensible and stuff. It interferes with the sky is falling narrative!

Hope the GT gets updated and released to you soon. My next MME will likely be a GT as well. The only thing that angers me about Ford's handling of the mach-e is that they killed off Infinite Blue (aka Ocen Blvd Blue). Seriously.

 

[yngwenli]

looking up things, calling Ford, chatting with Ford, etc.

Some of us are happy wasting time reading this thread instead

 

[Mike G]

Oh stop being so sensible and stuff. It interferes with the sky is falling narrative!

Hope the GT gets updated and released to you soon. My next MME will likely be a GT as well. The only thing that angers me about Ford's handling of the mach-e is that they killed off Infinite Blue (aka Ocen Blvd Blue). Seriously.

And my only gripe about my Lightning was that for some reason "Lightning Blue" or at least "Velocity Blue" didn't make the cut and I had to pick Atlas Blue......I mean really...how does Lightning Blue not make the cut as a Lightning color option?

Mike

 

[billy_at]

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