MellowJohnny

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At the risk of repeating an opinion previously expressed (we are on pp.84 after all), this feels very much like a software fix for a hardware problem. Maybe that's super-obvious the the Engineers amongst us, but I have to imagine the "real" re-engineered hardware is being worked on as we speak.

I completely get the fast-charging (huge voltage going into the battery, creating heat) followed by hard acceleration (huge voltage going out of the battery, creating more heat) ain't good. So given folks are likely to keep creating this condition (and others we don't know about yet) a more robust solution seems obvious.

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breeves002

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At the risk of repeating an opinion previously expressed (we are on pp.84 after all), this feels very much like a software fix for a hardware problem. Maybe that's super-obvious the the Engineers amongst us, but I have to imagine the "real" re-engineered hardware is being worked on as we speak.
Hardware fix already exists. Any car that fails appears to be getting the new hardware (including mine). My theory is the software is just to recognize when a failure is imminent, set the MIL, and people will go to the dealer to get it fixed but won't be left stranded. Possibly lowering power output and input until it is fixed. All a theory though who knows they'll never tell us.
 

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Two theories on this.

1. It isn't just a software fix. The new vehicles built got new hardware (and will get the software too at a later date), the new software is designed to just predict when a failure will happen and alert a customer before they're stranded.

2. They're working on the details to get it actually out OTA and that's why it isn't released. Testing OTA deployments and possibly needing other software updates to supplement it.

That is my two theories but who knows.
Neither of these scenarios seem very likely to me. On (1) I believe the wording of the recall would have to be different to reflect it being some sort of interim solution. Pretty clearly they are saying software is the solution, and (2) doesn't entirely explain why the cars held for delivery by the dealerships aren't being updated and released to customers more quickly. The dealerships aren't going to be doing these updates OTA, I presume.
 

cvk71

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*raises hand*

I've owned sports cars all of my life and now I'm at the point where I want sports car like performance with the utility of a crossover.

I have a lead food and I drive in a manner that some might consider aggressive.

I try to make my daily commute both fun (for me) and safe (for those around me). I also like to road rally with my friends. Rally driving behavior is stressful to any car but I'm pretty disappointed with stamina of my Mach-E GT.

I feel like the Mach-E GT and GTPE were an afterthought and they were never designed for drivers like me. I should have been skeptical I am not going to change how I drive my GT especially since ford will be covering 100% of the bill for 8 years/100,000 miles if the HVBJB fails again. By that time there will be much better and authentic "Grand Touring" options out there. The MME GT is just not engineered to hang with the big dogs on a rally yet.

With that all of that said, the answer is yes. I have driven with WOT then hit a DC fast charger then hit WOT again. I've done two multi-state drives in this manner (10 hours each way) for a total of 20 hours. The car did not get a rest. It's a GT. It should be engineered to handle multi-state road trips with little to no stopping. If the car wasn't moving then it was fast charging. If it wasn't fast charging then it was moving. Ford should have tested the car extensively and this should have been caught before the first GT was sold.

Ford will probably be putting in the new HVBJB in my car again because it will probably fail again because of their sub-par engineering. Good thing the feds locked in a mandatory 8 year/100k warranty.
In 1998 I bought a Mustang Cobra and when I took it in, for a problem I can't remember, the tech told me I was driving it too hard. So I asked him if I take it to Dearborn to drive it on the track (you got an invitation from Ford if you had a SVT vehicle back then) should I go slowly around so I don't hurt it? The point of a performance vehicle is to drive it not baby it. Worse part is I love this freaking car.
 

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Hardware fix already exists. Any car that fails appears to be getting the new hardware (including mine). My theory is the software is just to recognize when a failure is imminent, set the MIL, and people will go to the dealer to get it fixed but won't be left stranded. Possibly lowering power output and input until it is fixed. All a theory though who knows they'll never tell us.
I'm just getting caught up on this myself, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but once the HV contacts overheat, don't they have to be replaced?
 


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breeves002

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Neither of these scenarios seem very likely to me. On (1) I believe the wording of the recall would have to be different to reflect it being some sort of interim solution. Pretty clearly they are saying software is the solution, and (2) doesn't entirely explain why the cars held for delivery by the dealerships aren't being updated and released to customers more quickly. The dealerships aren't going to be doing these updates OTA, I presume.
It is a "fix" in the eyes of the government because if it is able to detect a problem early enough and limit heating of the contractors until it can be addressed it satisfies the safety issue. They don't have to say anything more about it. Dealing with regulatory and from a PR perspective the working is important.

You're right on #2 so let me propose a second theory for #2. That being the software isn't ready. They have a complicated algorithm to figure out if the part is failing or not then they have to modify other module software to react to that happening. It may be more than just the SOBDMC and BECM or maybe it is just those two. Either way it is obvious the software just isn't ready or it would be released.
 
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breeves002

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I'm just getting caught up on this myself, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but once the HV contacts overheat, don't they have to be replaced?
Once it welds itself shut it does. However there can be symptoms before it fully does this that the driver may not perceive. High resistance connections leading to higher than expected voltage drops which generate more heat is one way.
 
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Welp, my November 2020 built Select just got the recall alert.

Ford Mustang Mach-E Safety Recall 22S41 - 2021-2022 Mach E - HVBJB Recall [high voltage battery main contactors may overheat] 1655498550596
 

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It is a "fix" in the eyes of the government because if it is able to detect a problem early enough and limit heating of the contractors until it can be addressed it satisfies the safety issue. They don't have to say anything more about it. Dealing with regulatory and from a PR perspective the working is important.

You're right on #2 so let me propose a second theory for #2. That being the software isn't ready. They have a complicated algorithm to figure out if the part is failing or not then they have to modify other module software to react to that happening. It may be more than just the SOBDMC and BECM or maybe it is just those two. Either way it is obvious the software just isn't ready or it would be released.
You might be right about (1) but it would still be somewhat surprising if they weren't required to disclose a known future recall. A problem with your theory (2) is this software is presumably already being installed on all cars made on 5-25 and after. If any physical changes were made to these cars we haven't heard of them. Not that we would, necessarily, but the software should still be a part of addressing the problem it seems.
 

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Once it welds itself shut it does. However there can be symptoms before it fully does this that the driver may not perceive. High resistance connections leading to higher than expected voltage drops which generate more heat is one way.
Understood, I was just pointing out that if you bring the car in with either symptoms or a complete failure of the HV connector, the solution is to replace the part. So from what I can tell at least this isn't the same situation as the recall, which is designed to prevent the part from failing in the first place.
 

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Two theories on this.

1. It isn't just a software fix. The new vehicles built got new hardware (and will get the software too at a later date), the new software is designed to just predict when a failure will happen and alert a customer before they're stranded.

2. They're working on the details to get it actually out OTA and that's why it isn't released. Testing OTA deployments and possibly needing other software updates to supplement it.

That is my two theories but who knows.
Hardware fix already exists. Any car that fails appears to be getting the new hardware (including mine). My theory is the software is just to recognize when a failure is imminent, set the MIL, and people will go to the dealer to get it fixed but won't be left stranded. Possibly lowering power output and input until it is fixed. All a theory though who knows they'll never tell us.
Neither of these scenarios seem very likely to me. On (1) I believe the wording of the recall would have to be different to reflect it being some sort of interim solution. Pretty clearly they are saying software is the solution, and (2) doesn't entirely explain why the cars held for delivery by the dealerships aren't being updated and released to customers more quickly. The dealerships aren't going to be doing these updates OTA, I presume.
Per the wording on the recall notice, it IS a hardware issue. If DCFC and WOT accelerations are causing it to overheat, you can't really blame that on software as the failure point is the hardware. My issue is that if it only affects vehicles produced pre-5/27, then there must be a known fix, whether hardware or software. Is there any way of knowing if the post-5/27 vehicles had different hardware (contactors) or software versions? Like many are saying, I believe the software fix is just a band-aid to prevent any more failures or worse, fires. It's also the fastest way to get these vehicles to stop overheating contactors without parking them.

In 1998 I bought a Mustang Cobra and when I took it in, for a problem I can't remember, the tech told me I was driving it too hard. So I asked him if I take it to Dearborn to drive it on the track (you got an invitation from Ford if you had a SVT vehicle back then) should I go slowly around so I don't hurt it? The point of a performance vehicle is to drive it not baby it. Worse part is I love this freaking car.
Tracking a car doesn't really fit into normal use of a vehicle, and while it will work for a while being driven to the limit, it certainly won't last as long as a typically driven daily driver. That said, DCFC sessions followed by WOT accelerations is certainly not out of the scope of "normal driving" for a lot of people.
I'm just getting caught up on this myself, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but once the HV contacts overheat, don't they have to be replaced?
Not necessarily. A lot of electrical components get hot, this is not unusual. The question is for how long, and what damage has been done? Only way to know is to do an inspection, and even then you are relying on a visual. At that point, you might as well replace the part. Around and around we go!
 

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You might be right about (1) but it would still be somewhat surprising if they weren't required to disclose a known future recall. A problem with your theory (2) is this software is presumably already being installed on all cars made on 5-25 and after. If any physical changes were made to these cars we haven't heard of them. Not that we would, necessarily, but the software should still be a part of addressing the problem it seems.
Or could be that the 5/25+ cars are unaffected because they have sufficiently-specced contactors, and therefore don't need the software update to ship
 

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Two theories on this.

1. It isn't just a software fix. The new vehicles built got new hardware (and will get the software too at a later date), the new software is designed to just predict when a failure will happen and alert a customer before they're stranded.

2. They're working on the details to get it actually out OTA and that's why it isn't released. Testing OTA deployments and possibly needing other software updates to supplement it.

That is my two theories but who knows.
I'll add a 3rd theory. The NHTSA recall cites a "part-to-part variation of the high voltage battery main contactor." They could have tightened up the spec and done 100% inspection of the parts they had and only released the ones within the new spec to the factory floor. In fact, that would explain the 2-3 week factory slowdown.
 

Secret Sauce

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Per the wording on the recall notice, it IS a hardware issue. If DCFC and WOT accelerations are causing it to overheat, you can't really blame that on software as the failure point is the hardware. My issue is that if it only affects vehicles produced pre-5/27, then there must be a known fix, whether hardware or software. Is there any way of knowing if the post-5/27 vehicles had different hardware (contactors) or software versions? Like many are saying, I believe the software fix is just a band-aid to prevent any more failures or worse, fires. It's also the fastest way to get these vehicles to stop overheating contactors without parking them.
Yes, it's a hardware failure but that doesn't mean it can't be addressed in software. Nothing inherently wrong with that. Most EVs are speed governed to prevent the motors from over-revving and burning out, for example. Cars have a design envelope and software can keep them from being pushed to where they exceed it.

Not necessarily. A lot of electrical components get hot, this is not unusual. The question is for how long, and what damage has been done? Only way to know is to do an inspection, and even then you are relying on a visual. At that point, you might as well replace the part. Around and around we go!
Sure, but I was responding to someone who reported this part being replaced on their car. The assumption seemed to be that an upgraded part was installed with the repair.
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