Safety Recall 22S41 - 2021-2022 Mach E - HVBJB Recall [high voltage battery main contactors may overheat]

[Blue highway]

It may be a large impact in the event of a malfunction. No reason to expect a performance reduction under normal operation. Every throttle-by-wire ICE vehicle on the road will go into a severely reduced power mode if there is a loss of correlation between any of the APP and TP sensors. When all the sensors agree you have full power.
Hell, diesels will derate if you ignore DPF regen requests too many times.

"No reason to expect a performance reduction under normal operation."

This is why that assumption is completely wrong.

If resistance is detected across the relay, power will be reduced by the software as the resistance generates heat as current passes through... more current = more heat.

The problem with the assumption above is that it assumes, the resistance across the relay will somehow go back to factory original condition and the software will stop limiting power. This will never happen. Once damaged, the the resistance across the relay contacts will never go away. Said differently, once pitting occurs, there is resistance in the connection and the resistance will not go back to where it was before the pitting occurred. The only way to remove the resistance from the pitting, is to open up the hermetically sealed relay and clean the contactors... or replace the relay all together.

Otherwise, the software will protect the relay by limiting current... but the software will never give original power because once damage occurs, the contactor is permanently damaged... it does NOT heal its self.

Performance will be reduced permanently until the relay is replaced. THIS is why the software "fix" alone is unacceptable.

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[PharaohHound138]

So, does this mean that the Mach-E I ordered in October 2021 that was built May 19th 2022 and is scheduled to be delivered between June 29- July 7th will not be available for me to take possession due to the “stop sale”???

 

[Neil4Real]

So, does this mean that the Mach-E I ordered in October 2021 that was built May 19th 2022 and is scheduled to be delivered between June 29- July 7th will not be available for me to take possession due to the “stop sale”???

Yes.

 

[Blue highway]

I will just add that it has only happened to a small percentage of vehicles "so far". These vehicles are still very young and we have no idea what the failure rate will look like over time.

But we do know some interesting things about the failures.

We know that there some cars that have had multiple failures - In the right circumstances this is repeatable.

We know that on average, the failures so far have occurred in less than a year of usage which is a fairly low MTBF.

We know that reliability over time deteriorates, it does not improve. This is why problem parts are replaced with more robust parts to improve system reliability. We also know this is not what Ford is doing.

 

[buzznwood]

"No reason to expect a performance reduction under normal operation."

This is why that assumption is completely wrong.

If resistance is detected across the relay, power will be reduced by the software as the resistance generates heat as current passes through... more current = more heat.

The problem with the assumption above is that it assumes, the resistance across the relay will somehow go back to factory original condition and the software will stop limiting power. This will never happen. Once damaged, the the resistance across the relay contacts will never go away. Said differently, once pitting occurs, there is resistance in the connection and the resistance will not go back to where it was before the pitting occurred. The only way to remove the resistance from the pitting, is to open up the hermetically sealed relay and clean the contactors... or replace the relay all together.

Otherwise, the software will protect the relay by limiting current... but the software will never give original power because once damage occurs, the contactor is permanently damaged... it does NOT heal its self.

Performance will be reduced permanently until the relay is replaced. THIS is why the software "fix" alone is unacceptable.

In my mind the only way only way the fix is acceptable is that the throttle is there to prevent you from getting stranded and then gives you the equivalent of a permanent check engine light and a constant pop up on dash each time you start telling of potential failure and that a service is required. At which point you go to the dealer and get a warranty replacement.

Which leads onto the great unknown at what resistance does it class as damaged. Apart from those that have already had a replacement nobody knows what condition there relays are in. Are we going to have a load of owners that are currently one post fix WOT or DCFC away from being throttled ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .

 

[Fixbear]

But we do know some interesting things about the failures.

We know that there some cars that have had multiple failures - In the right circumstances this is repeatable.

We know that on average, the failures so far have occurred in less than a year of usage which is a fairly low MTBF.

We know that reliability over time deteriorates, it does not improve. This is why problem parts are replaced with more robust parts to improve system reliability. We also know this is not what Ford is doing.

Not doing at this time. But let's be real, 1) the problem just reached to point that it is a big concern. 2) It takes time to analyze All the incidents to see if they have a common cause. 3) Once the problem is verified, solutions have to be brought forth. 4) Solutions now have to be built and tested. 5) solutions are run past finance. 6) Solution is run past Legal. 7) Solution (s) is approved by corporate and distributed internally. 8) sourcing or the corrected /improved parts are bid and purchased. 9) Redesigned parts are shipped. 10) Recall action is now started.
If that can be done in under a month like they are saying, they are miracle workers. Obviously the first "Fix" will have to be a Band-Aid.

 

[JeanneB]

I took mine in for the windshield recall and they did the module update for this at the same time, nice surprise.
Also, on another note, they did not do the Blue Cruise update, as scheduled to do, because several others in at the same time were done and the vehicle was left in operable so apparently there is some corruption in the software they were sent. So glad they didn’t do mine!

They did my blue cruise update when they did the windshield recall and the computer crashed while doing the update. It was inoperable for 15 days.

 

[newmme]

It takes time to analyze All the incidents to see if they have a common cause.

This issue started 1.5 years ago, jess saying

 

[Blue highway]

Not doing at this time. But let's be real, 1) the problem just reached to point that it is a big concern. 2) It takes time to analyze All the incidents to see if they have a common cause. 3) Once the problem is verified, solutions have to be brought forth. 4) Solutions now have to be built and tested. 5) solutions are run past finance. 6) Solution is run past Legal. 7) Solution (s) is approved by corporate and distributed internally. 8) sourcing or the corrected /improved parts are bid and purchased. 9) Redesigned parts are shipped. 10) Recall action is now started.
If that can be done in under a month like they are saying, they are miracle workers. Obviously the first "Fix" will have to be a Band-Aid.

The wheels may turn faster than you are giving credit but at any rate, they have known about this for >6 months.

Ford has seen many dozens of failed parts first hand to do post mortems... It's the positive contactor. Based on this, more robust parts have been developed and are available (see the part number changes earlier in the threads)

Insiders indicate that Ford leadership has changed direction.

The "recall" is SW only. There is no mention of actually replacing the bad parts with the new parts and this is the problem. I am sympathetic to the significant challenges of coming up with an additional 100K new parts on top of what is needed for production and the parts business. I am sympathetic to the cost and load on the dealers to do an actual parts change recall.

But I agree... let's be real. Ford has no plan to change the bad part in your car.

 

[kennethjk]

The wheels may turn faster than you are giving credit but at any rate, they have known about this for >6 months.

Ford has seen many dozens of failed parts first hand to do post mortems... It's the positive contactor. Based on this, more robust parts have been developed and are available (see the part number changes earlier in the threads)

Insiders indicate that Ford leadership has changed direction.

The "recall" is SW only. There is no mention of actually replacing the bad parts with the new parts and this is the problem. I am sympathetic to the significant challenges of coming up with an additional 100K new parts on top of what is needed for production and the parts business. I am sympathetic to the cost and load on the dealers to do an actual parts change recall.

But I agree... let's be real. Ford has no plan to change the bad part in your car.

if that is the case it would be very disappointing. Wondering if the next time I floor the car out of necessity, merging traffic or whatever, is it going to be the time it fries the part. Not a good feeling to have. Ignorance is bliss but the cat is out of the bag. Has the part in my car been partially damaged already. I will never Know how damaged it might be.
guess I deserve it buying a Ford, ( first one in 40 years) although other than the bouncy ride and the bad part, it happens to be a pretty good car.

live and learn.

 

[MustThee?]

Wow, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, guys I was just kidding but by golly I think you may actually take this thread to 159 pages, you've already made it to 100, incredible!

We have at least until Jul 18 and then some, so I am sure we will surpass 159 pages for sure

 

[Fixbear]

if that is the case it would be very disappointing. Wondering if the next time I floor the car out of necessity, merging traffic or whatever, is it going to be the time it fries the part. Not a good feeling to have. Ignorance is bliss but the cat is out of the bag. Has the part in my car been partially damaged already. I will never Know how damaged it might be.
guess I deserve it buying a Ford, ( first one in 40 years) although other than the bouncy ride and the bad part, it happens to be a pretty good car.

live and learn.

It is inevitable that Ford will have to replace the related parts at some point. Once the NTSB gets involved, they will have to. They may kick and scream that it isn't necessary, but eventually the pubic pressure and Gov will prevail. Remember Ralph Nader? And Corvairs

 

[zhackwyatt]

if that is the case it would be very disappointing. Wondering if the next time I floor the car out of necessity, merging traffic or whatever, is it going to be the time it fries the part. Not a good feeling to have. Ignorance is bliss but the cat is out of the bag. Has the part in my car been partially damaged already. I will never Know how damaged it might be.
guess I deserve it buying a Ford, ( first one in 40 years) although other than the bouncy ride and the bad part, it happens to be a pretty good car.

live and learn.

Ignorance is bliss as that is the same thing in every car every model.. Every time you turn the key, will it start?

 

[kennethjk]

It is inevitable that Ford will have to replace the related parts at some point. Once the NTSB gets involved, they will have to. They may kick and scream that it isn't necessary, but eventually the pubic pressure and Gov will prevail. Remember Ralph Nader? And Corvairs

My personal feeling is that software is stage 1 and hardware stage 2, when stage 2 happens is the question And hopefully burnt part doesn’t happen to many of us until stage 2 happens and part is replaced..

 

[kennethjk]

Ignorance is bliss as that is the same thing in every car every model.. Every time you turn the key, will it start?

only time I ever had the feeling, will my car start? was a 1972 Mazda RX2 in cold weather. the Car did not enjoy starting in 10 degrees. The other pice of shit car I had at the time , a Pontiac Astre wasn’t much better but it did start.

I learned my lesson from those two cars.

since 1976 all the cars I have had owned have been well built and no issues.

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