mach-e-waiting

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My Ford Dealer has some special database and also a CarFax site to see which cars have Stop-Delivery recall
I have two VIN Numbers

Both VINs are GREEN on Ford site

But the dealer's database show BOTH are recalled
I can drive my existing but my new one is in "Jail" and cannot be delivered

The Ford recall website is not helpful
 

kltye

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On good authority? Anything greater than around 10mbs (the speed of old school ethernet) is probably going to be faster than OTA even assuming a good, solid wireless connection and no server stress. Either way, whichever gets to the cars faster is the faster solution.
The HS-CAN (highspeed CAN) is only 512kbps. Additionally, flashing with FDRS basically uploads the entire software package to the module. OTA updates a) do delta/differential patching; b) updates the "B" side of the module, then switches operation over to that, then updates the "A" part, while FDRS requires that to be done in a single session.

They did my blue cruise update when they did the windshield recall and the computer crashed while doing the update. It was inoperable for 15 days.
Computer crashing doesn't mean things are screwed. I have messed up my FDRS flashing many, many times and each time I restarted, FDRS saw my module needed an update, and proceeded to attempt the flash again. It didn't even flinch about the failure.
 


Secret Sauce

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Not doing at this time. But let's be real, 1) the problem just reached to point that it is a big concern. 2) It takes time to analyze All the incidents to see if they have a common cause. 3) Once the problem is verified, solutions have to be brought forth. 4) Solutions now have to be built and tested. 5) solutions are run past finance. 6) Solution is run past Legal. 7) Solution (s) is approved by corporate and distributed internally. 8) sourcing or the corrected /improved parts are bid and purchased. 9) Redesigned parts are shipped. 10) Recall action is now started.
If that can be done in under a month like they are saying, they are miracle workers. Obviously the first "Fix" will have to be a Band-Aid.
The solution has already been implemented for cars leaving the factory after 5-24, so these steps were completed some time ago. Whether this fix turns out to be temporary or the last word on this issue remains to be seen, but it seems to me the real news is they were working on a solution even as they continued manufacturing and shipping cars all of which were certain to be recalled, some after they reached customers, some before.
 

Av8tor

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I found this while looking up information about contactor failures.

Kind of interesting!

Jim

interesting, but that is not how the HVBJB works, there is a contactor that is used along with a resistor and capacitor to ”prime” the positive contactor to the same voltage to eliminate the arch, what we don’t know is if the timing of the pre-charge contactor is where the issue is. my assumption is the software will change the timing of the pre-charge, and monitor the temp and resistance to determine potential failure. What Im not sure about, is if the contactors are new with no arch damage, will the software fix the issue altogether
 

BillPitman

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interesting, but that is not how the HVBJB works, there is a contactor that is used along with a resistor and capacitor to ”prime” the positive contactor to the same voltage to eliminate the arch, what we don’t know is if the timing of the pre-charge contactor is where the issue is. my assumption is the software will change the timing of the pre-charge, and monitor the temp and resistance to determine potential failure. What Im not sure about, is if the contactors are new with no arch damage, will the software fix the issue altogether
Does anyone know the specs for the contactor/s in question. Rated voltage, amperage & such…..must be quite high, as I have seen “HVB current” pid, of just over 650 amps. And this was just an aggressive start, & not WOT…… Bill P
 
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breeves002

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Does anyone know the specs for the contactor/s in question. Rated voltage, amperage & such…..must be quite high, as I have seen “HVB current” pid, of just over 650 amps. And this was just an aggressive start, & not WOT…… Bill P
GTPEs see 1050A peak.... Supposedly they're rated higher than that.
 

AZBill

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In order for arcing to occur, there has to be some air gap happening. Heat could cause the contactor surfaces to deform and create that air gap. But that means the contactors are under designed for their use case.
 

Blue highway

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Disclaimer: I am an engineer, but I am not an electrical engineer nor am I a materials scientist. Also I do not work for Ford fyi.

Okay now that that's out of the way, there's something you're missing:
Power, Resistance, and Temperature are all related.

Since resistance increases linearly as a function of temperature, you can use that relationship to find the temperature inside the connector. By monitoring temperature this way, the software should be able to throttle the current BEFORE you'd see material degradation beyond normal wear and tear occur. And when you back off the current, you also reduce the temperature, thus reducing the resistance again.

https://sciencing.com/happens-resistor-burns-up-8556222.html

Again, I could be wrong on this, as I don't work in electrical engineering or materials science, just chiming in with some tidbits I remember from those classes.
(yes, I do have a background in EE although I do other things professionally)

you have the order of events backwards.

yes, the relationship of power, resistance and temp is how they can detect temp rise without a temp sensor... I explain that a few times much higher up in this (massive) thread.

However, to show temp rise above baseline you have to have resistance above baseline... once you have that increased resistance, it NEVER goes away. So the SW will reduce power by some amount determined by the algorithm. The point being, this does nothing to fix the defective part... it may stop the defective part from stranding your car but potentially at the cost of significantly PERMANANTLY reducing current flow through the relay.

As an extreme example to make my point... if the current were limited to 20% of the current maximum, the part will never fail. However, the "cure" can be worse than the disease.
 
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breeves002

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(yes, I do have a background in EE although I do other things professionally)

you have the order of events backwards.

yes, the relationship of power, resistance and temp is how they can detect temp rise without a temp sensor... I explain that a few times much higher up in this (massive) thread.

However, to show temp rise above baseline you have to have resistance above baseline... once you have that increased resistance, it NEVER goes away. So the SW will reduce power by some amount determined by the algorithm. The point being, this does nothing to fix the defective part... it may stop the defective part from stranding your car but potentially at the cost of significantly PERMANANTLY reducing current flow through the relay.

As an extreme example to make my point... if the current were limited to 20% of the current maximum, the part will never fail. However, the "cure" can be worse than the disease.
I agree with this. Part starts going bad so resistance increases. Therefore power limit has to be introduced to avoid high temps making it worse. It could still get worse though then you have more limits...
 

newmme

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As an extreme example to make my point... if the current were limited to 20% of the current maximum, the part will never fail. However, the "cure" can be worse than the disease.
I am sure Ford will replace these parts, as they are betting the farm on EV's.
 

BillPitman

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(yes, I do have a background in EE although I do other things professionally)

you have the order of events backwards.

yes, the relationship of power, resistance and temp is how they can detect temp rise without a temp sensor... I explain that a few times much higher up in this (massive) thread.

However, to show temp rise above baseline you have to have resistance above baseline... once you have that increased resistance, it NEVER goes away. So the SW will reduce power by some amount determined by the algorithm. The point being, this does nothing to fix the defective part... it may stop the defective part from stranding your car but potentially at the cost of significantly PERMANANTLY reducing current flow through the relay.

As an extreme example to make my point... if the current were limited to 20% of the current maximum, the part will never fail. However, the "cure" can be worse than the disease.
Do you know what OBD pid’s might help with understanding the issue?! Bill P
Sponsored

 
 




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