Neil4Real

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I recently purchased my MME from a customer cancelled order. However, I couldn't take it home from the dealer because of this recall. I am moving across the country soon and am worried that I might not have possession of the vehicle by then. Am I legally locked into the loan for the car at this point? The loan cannot be processed until the recall is completed.
They can't sell you a new car with an active recall. They're just holding your paperwork. Go in and tell them to void all your stuff and you'll sign when it is fixed. Probably agree to a deposit of $500/$1,000 that's fully refundable if they can't get it fixed before you leave.
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StillWaitingForMachE

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(yes, I do have a background in EE although I do other things professionally)

you have the order of events backwards.

yes, the relationship of power, resistance and temp is how they can detect temp rise without a temp sensor... I explain that a few times much higher up in this (massive) thread.

However, to show temp rise above baseline you have to have resistance above baseline... once you have that increased resistance, it NEVER goes away. So the SW will reduce power by some amount determined by the algorithm. The point being, this does nothing to fix the defective part... it may stop the defective part from stranding your car but potentially at the cost of significantly PERMANANTLY reducing current flow through the relay.

As an extreme example to make my point... if the current were limited to 20% of the current maximum, the part will never fail. However, the "cure" can be worse than the disease.
I never did like my Intro to EE class. 😂
 

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They can't sell you a new car with an active recall. They're just holding your paperwork. Go in and tell them to void all your stuff and you'll sign when it is fixed. Probably agree to a deposit of $500/$1,000 that's fully refundable if they can't get it fixed before you leave.
I already have that deposit down now. I am assuming that if it takes more than a few weeks they would have to have me sign again anyways because credit pulls expire after a certain amount of time. I don't want that to happen because I want the MME. I didn't put an order in when I should have so I just took what I could get.
 

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What leads you to believe they're not looking at cooling changes on later models?
I hope they are. Instead of limiting power by sw updates, etc.. I don't care so much: as my mach-e is SR, RWD (and on hold from delivery), I should not feel it. But for GT owners it's different
 

newmme

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Why is Ford not investigating on reducing the temperature, to cool down? Isn't this a better option? Do not ask me how, I am not a specialist. But if I watch the video some pages ago....
The cooling is already in bad shape.

 


Neil4Real

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The cooling is already in bad shape.

I don't really want to watch a video, can you summarize? I thought in Sandy's initial teardown, the cooling was adequate, there was just a lot of extra tubing, etc. that could be eliminated and still get the same result?
 

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I don't really want to watch a video, can you summarize? I thought in Sandy's initial teardown, the cooling was adequate, there was just a lot of extra tubing, etc. that could be eliminated and still get the same result?
Yep, that was my take. He took a glance at a working product and quickly judged that he'd probably do it differently. Meanwhile, he didn't identify actual flaws.
 

newmme

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thought in Sandy's initial teardown, the cooling was adequate, there was just a lot of extra tubing, etc. that could be eliminated and still get the same result?
Adequate is fair. The 5 second limit probably helps make up for the limitations on cooling
 

yngwenli

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The cooling is already in bad shape.


I watched this a long time ago. It's really Ford getting off the shelf parts, putting eveything in ASAP for speed and things being sorta like Frankenstein and over speced like the duplicate pumps that they think will remove one eventually, etc...

It's definitely a mess under the frunk compared to starting from scratch.

Sandy, from all the videos I've seen is to re-engineer a lot of stuff with less parts, lower cost, etc...That's sorta his thing I believe so yes, there is a lot of that for the MME currently.

I'm guessing, but can anyone post the Lightning frunk? I assume they tried a bit harder and that thing looks better for their cash cow and halo truck.
 

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Adequate is fair. The 5 second limit probably helps make up for the limitations on cooling
But what limitations on cooling? The consensus seems to be around the battery manufacturer for the 5 second limit, since China MMEs have a different supplier of the battery packs they have no 5 second limit. Their internals are assumed to be the same or vastly similar.
 

Secret Sauce

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The HS-CAN (highspeed CAN) is only 512kbps. Additionally, flashing with FDRS basically uploads the entire software package to the module. OTA updates a) do delta/differential patching; b) updates the "B" side of the module, then switches operation over to that, then updates the "A" part, while FDRS requires that to be done in a single session.
Interesting. Thanks for the info. Still, I'm sticking to my theory that whatever gets the update to the car the soonest is the fastest method. I am hoping the FDRS method is implemented first, as in right away. The rollout of OTA seems to be delayed potentially until mid-July and my car is undeliverable until it's completed.
 

Blue highway

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Interesting. Thanks for the info. Still, I'm sticking to my theory that whatever gets the update to the car the soonest is the fastest method. I am hoping the FDRS method is implemented first, as in right away. The rollout of OTA seems to be delayed potentially until mid-July and my car is undeliverable until it's completed.
The dealers interests, your interests, and Fords interests are all generally aligned in getting you a car sooner rather than later... I'll guess that a SW patch will be available to be loaded (via FDRS) at the dealer well before the OTA is ready.

I hope that is soon.

FWIW, despite the aggravation around the SW.... this is by a wide margin, my favorite car I have ever owned.
 

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But what limitations on cooling? The consensus seems to be around the battery manufacturer for the 5 second limit, since China MMEs have a different supplier of the battery packs they have no 5 second limit. Their internals are assumed to be the same or vastly similar.
We know there are various cosmetic differences between them and a different battery supplier in BYD, but seeing as the 5 second limit on the rest of the world models is buried away in the finest of fine print. I would like to see some real numbers as confirmation of the Chinese model not having a 5 second limit not the appearance of it potentially not having one due to it being driven around a test track. Ideally an actual 1/4 mile time and trap speed as it will be pretty obvious from the trap speed if it has a limit.

If it doesn't and this software fix for HVBJB ends up reducing the performance on the rest of the world GT/ GTPEs even further Ford will be heading for another another SVT cobra fiasco.
 
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I know this is a serious recall, but keep in mind the actual failure rate when deciding whether or not to take it on a road trip. I had a short trip yesterday with 4 hours of , ahem, "spirited" driving and 1 DCFC partial charge. I forgot how much fun it was to take a road trip in this car! Way too many times I mumbled let me pass this jerk and looked down with a silly grin at the ludicrous speed while my wife yelled at me to slow it down. Sorry for the interruption, back to engineering talk... ;)
 

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I hope they are. Instead of limiting power by sw updates, etc.. I don't care so much: as my mach-e is SR, RWD (and on hold from delivery), I should not feel it. But for GT owners it's different
Ford isn’t going to tell us at any point, or in any alternate timeline, just what they’re engineering or how. There’s not going to be an announcement that for the 2023 (24/25 …) model year that they’ve moved the flux capacitor location to behind the radiator and beneath the rear seat resulting in greater cooling for the battery and adding in seat warming for the rear passengers. They’re not going to tell us that the new connectors are precision milled from solid unobtainium by highly skilled Elbonian machinists and that Cabin heating and air conditioning will be supplied by B-787 (“Sparky the Wonder Jet” for those wondering what we nicked named them) style heat exchangers and air cycle machines.

Why? Because things change. Flux Capacitors are in Extremely short supply these days, Elbonia may have no machinists (Skilled or otherwise), and The Oracle of Pretoria might corner the market on unobtainium ore. Oh, and it could cannibalize current sales. Plus such a move would probably spawn 17,000 threads on the Mach-e forums.

In any event, they have engineers and others working on the next version of the MME.
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