San Jose to LA trip -- not so good

gpgrim

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It's not the Nav. nor the planning! The real issue is the need for an interstate infrastructure reboot, i.e. Route 66 2.0, or what I call the "auto-net." The scope that falls under this heading is massive, as well are the economic opportunities, from power generation, distribution, and local storage, to retail development, and enabling tech. If you've seen the Norway Circle-K vid, it's cute, but not the right solution for I-5/99 between Stockton and Bakerspatch, though as a one-off stop, sure it'll work.

With full commitment, this reboot is a 10-15 year build out, and after pinging a (very) few who might know something, I"m convinced there won't be a serious effort anytime soon. Batshit crazy tech, i.e. solid-state separators and Li-anodes are not going to save bacon for many decades given the tech mat. and ~$105/kWh of current batts. Major car companies are going full EV in 10 years w/o having this tech in hand! There's a reason Elon is putting 150 M$ of his money into initial efforts line I-5 with panels and batteries, but my guess is it's to recharge the EV truck fleet he envisages. Their needs will dwarf the SF to Disneyland needs in terms of infrastructure. Also, Elon is basically a nerd, I don't think he has the first clue how to do retail customer service.
 

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We could probably use a good primer on how to use the Sync Nav system for route planning. Except me, I live on an island. ;)
I do NOT use the app for road trips. I go the my car and do it there. It gives me 3 options including charge stations. I then put the cities into my EA app to make sure that they are EA. On route I randomly check EA site for upcoming cities. Whether the car says I need it or not I will pull in for say 8-10 minutes and get 70-80 miles. The 8-10 minutes is a no brainer

sometimes yes you have to re enter the destination. I found that odd but it works. In the nav screen on the top left corner there is a circle. On route you hit that button and then click CHARGERS NEAR ME. It will list in my case EA/Charpoint/Evgo. They are all level 3 chargers as that is how I set up my default chargers.

if I make the trip more than once I listspecific EA chargers as FAVORITES. In short I use nav in conjunction with the EA App. I called EA and told them they need to add travel plans to their site.

now I have noticed that there are a LOT of new EA stations under construction on their website. For example in Baker there are two EA stations but only one is listed as the other just opened. It is between Cali and LV. LV has 3 EA stations but roughly 15 under construction.

in Washington Tacoma has EA but there are several others nearly finished within a 30 miles distance of Tacoma on some of the more secluded towns like Port Orchard.
 
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It's not the Nav. nor the planning! The real issue is the need for an interstate infrastructure reboot, i.e. Route 66 2.0, or what I call the "auto-net." The scope that falls under this heading is massive, as well are the economic opportunities, from power generation, distribution, and local storage, to retail development, and enabling tech. If you've seen the Norway Circle-K vid, it's cute, but not the right solution for I-5/99 between Stockton and Bakerspatch, though as a one-off stop, sure it'll work.

With full commitment, this reboot is a 10-15 year build out, and after pinging a (very) few who might know something, I"m convinced there won't be a serious effort anytime soon. Batshit crazy tech, i.e. solid-state separators and Li-anodes are not going to save bacon for many decades given the tech mat. and ~$105/kWh of current batts. Major car companies are going full EV in 10 years w/o having this tech in hand! There's a reason Elon is putting 150 M$ of his money into initial efforts line I-5 with panels and batteries, but my guess is it's to recharge the EV truck fleet he envisages. Their needs will dwarf the SF to Disneyland needs in terms of infrastructure. Also, Elon is basically a nerd, I don't think he has the first clue how to do retail customer service.
The alternative to putting lots of charging stations along the interstates would be a more powerful battery. If you have a solid 500 mile range on an interstate you wouldn't need charging at all during the trip, you would only need to charge overnight. That would probably mean that EPA range should be about 1000 miles. It's not feasible with current battery technology, but might be feasible in 10 years.
 

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I do NOT use the app for road trips. I go the my car and do it there. It gives me 3 options including charge stations. I then put the cities into my EA app to make sure that they are EA. On route I randomly check EA site for upcoming cities. Whether the car says I need it or not I will pull in for say 8-10 minutes and get 70-80 miles. The 8-10 minutes is a no brainer

sometimes yes you have to re enter the destination. I found that odd but it works. In the nav screen on the top left corner there is a circle. On route you hit that button and then click CHARGERS NEAR ME. It will list in my case EA/Charpoint/Evgo. They are all level 3 chargers as that is how I set up my default chargers.

if I make the trip more than once I listspecific EA chargers as FAVORITES. In short I use nav in conjunction with the EA App. I called EA and told them they need to add travel plans to their site.

now I have noticed that there are a LOT of new EA stations under construction on their website. For example in Baker there are two EA stations but only one is listed as the other just opened. It is between Cali and LV. LV has 3 EA stations but roughly 15 under construction.

in Washington Tacoma has EA but there are several others nearly finished within a 30 miles distance of Tacoma on some of the more secluded towns like Port Orchard.
Thanks for posting this. I'm sure it will help a lot of folks as we all work through the idiosyncrasies of the first year Mach-e's.
 

gpgrim

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The alternative to putting lots of charging stations along the interstates would be a more powerful battery. If you have a solid 500 mile range on an interstate you wouldn't need charging at all during the trip, you would only need to charge overnight. That would probably mean that EPA range should be about 1000 miles. It's not feasible with current battery technology, but might be feasible in 10 years.
Based on the materials issues that have to be resolved, in spite of QuantumScape's coy statements, this is going to be a much longer timeframe than 10 years. Further, at the current $105/kWh pricing, auto companies are able to produce at margins of ICE vehicles. This new enabling tech, will be at an enormous economic disadvantage, i.e. premium pricing, before reaching economic viability. The infrastructure can't wait, though it can be scaled and staged, to avoid over implementation.
 

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Thanks for posting this. I'm sure it will help a lot of folks as we all work through the idiosyncrasies of the first year Mach-e's.
I forgot to
Mention as was said earlier. 75 MPH is THE sweet spot. At 80 it falls off a cliff. I also check the miles/ KWH graph regularly and reset it after every charge. If you stay above 2.2-2.6 you are good. 1.9 and less and you will be charging more often. Use cruise control as much as possible. It helps with both hard accelerations/braking. The miles/KWH graph is critical on long drives.
Based on the materials issues that have to be resolved, in spite of QuantumScape's coy statements, this is going to be a much longer timeframe than 10 years. Further, at the current $105/kWh pricing, auto companies are able to produce at margins of ICE vehicles. This new enabling tech, will be at an enormous economic disadvantage, i.e. premium pricing, before reaching economic viability. The infrastructure can't wait, though it can be scaled and staged, to avoid over implementation.
The current batteries will be tweaked as much as possible through OTA. Having more stations with higher number like EA at 350 will go a long way. I leave and top off at EA FOR 8 minutes and get 70 miles. 8 mi utes is a no brainer especially with traffic
 

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I forgot to
Mention as was said earlier. 75 MPH is THE sweet spot. At 80 it falls off a cliff. I also check the miles/ KWH graph regularly and reset it after every charge. If you stay above 2.2-2.6 you are good. 1.9 and less and you will be charging more often. Use cruise control as much as possible. It helps with both hard accelerations/braking. The miles/KWH graph is critical on long drives.


The current batteries will be tweaked as much as possible through OTA. Having more stations with higher number like EA at 350 will go a long way. I leave and top off at EA FOR 8 minutes and get 70 miles. 8 mi utes is a no brainer especially with traffic
A quick sidebar on power/velocity. Once speeds are reached where wind is the dominant force being overcome by the motor, power increases with the cube of the velocity. Remember the days of 55 mph, well just throttling to 65 mph increased the burn by 65%. The last time I drove less than 80 Mph on Bay Area freeways, was pre-covid and I would be hard pressed to make it to 75 Mph in traffic. That 5 mph cost 21% more fuel burn at speed. Going from 70 to 80 Mph uses 50% more energy at speed.

As for the batt. discussion, every 2x in power helps, but it will also come at a cost in reduced batt life down the road. Will 350 kW be standard across the EV industry? Is there another high power standard hiding in the wings?

Even with 350 kW charging, there will still be 3-6x gap to ICE "refuel rates", (in equivalent terms "useful" petrol refuel rates are roughly 1200-1500 kHw, with actual onboard rates 5x higher.) This gap translates into time and real estate for comparable to current ICE traffic loads. For SF-LA, there's nowhere to hide this gap, other than downtime spread over more real estate. Under current circumstances, i.e. taking the Mach-E covered wagon west from St. Louis, who knows, maybe the charger works when you get there, maybe it doesn't and you're eating a passenger at midnight. There are too many of the latter stories on this board, and amongst my friends, for EV adoption to go smoothly among the non-tech dominant castes of our society. Since that's what we Merikans do is drive, particularly I-5 at 85 Mph, the infrastructure is going to have to respond in so many different ways, though from what I've been gathering in my reading, this isn't really being taken that seriously yet in open venues.
 
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A quick sidebar on power/velocity. Once speeds are reached where wind is the dominant force being overcome by the motor, power increases with the cube of the velocity. Remember the days of 55 mph, well just throttling to 65 mph increased the burn by 65%. The last time I drove less than 80 Mph on Bay Area freeways, was pre-covid and I would be hard pressed to make it to 75 Mph in traffic. That 5 mph cost 21% more fuel burn at speed. Going from 70 to 80 Mph uses 50% more energy at speed.

As for the batt. discussion, every 2x in power helps, but it will also come at a cost in reduced batt life down the road. Will 350 kW be standard across the EV industry? Is there another high power standard hiding in the wings?

Even with 350 kW charging, there will still be 3-6x gap to ICE "refuel rates", (in equivalent terms "useful" petrol refuel rates are roughly 1200-1500 kHw, with actual onboard rates 5x higher.) This gap translates into time and real estate for comparable to current ICE traffic loads. For SF-LA, there's nowhere to hide this gap, other than downtime spread over more real estate. Under current circumstances, i.e. taking the Mach-E covered wagon west from St. Louis, who knows, maybe the charger works when you get there, maybe it doesn't and you're eating a passenger at midnight. There are too many of the latter stories on this board, and amongst my friends, for EV adoption to go smoothly among the non-tech dominant castes of our society. Since that's what we Merikans do is drive, particularly I-5 at 85 Mph, the infrastructure is going to have to respond in so many different ways, though from what I've been gathering in my reading, this isn't really being taken that seriously yet in open venues.
A cheaper solution is to put a bunch of cops on I-5 so that everybody drives under 70mph. 😂
 

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I drive the I5 many times a week. Yes you have idiots going 95 but at cruise at 75 I am fine. It is a choice. I have never had any issues about power or running low on battery etc. the bottom line is that it is a choice. I see sooooo many new EA stations going up both in Bakersfield and along freeways. Adoption will be quicker than many realize. If you count ChargePoint then there are more charging stations from Bakersfield to La than gas stations.
 

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Quite Frankly, Ford and all other manufacturers EV marketing materials do not tell you about the "cons" or let's say "challenges" of EV ownership, which are all well highlighted here. Folks are on their own when it comes to that. It is just a different experience that you must adapt to. I can just imagine what original Leaf Owners in New England discovered when their 80 mile range became 53 or less miles in the Winter. And when degredation set in, 43, 33, 23 miles.
They don’t tell you about cons of gas cars either so that’s kind of what marketing does. Look like all true performance car there are huge trade offs.
 

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Those numbers are fine for mixed city/highway driving. I actually averaged anywhere from 3.3 to 3.5 in different days. But it's way too optimistic for long trips on interstate where you drive 80 mph most of the time. My car is AWD SR, so it has the shortest range. But for that trip it wouldn't make any difference for any other configuration, you can't make it without those two stops anyway, though you would have a bigger margin for any errors or unforeseen circumstances. I think when EA decided where to put the chargers they calculated the real range and came up with those two places, basically they did minimum still making it practical.

For my car driving on I-5 at desired speed, the efficiency was about 2.1 mi/kWh. Taking into account that you can only reasonably charge the battery to 80%, the range becomes about 114 miles. A better weather conditions can improve it, but you can't really travel like that hoping that everything will go right. Only when they put fast chargers everywhere where gas stations are now the situation will change.

Another problem is the 80% cliff. There was an E-tron charging next to me and it was going almost at the same speed as mine while charging over 80%.
You're missing the point. When you road trip in an EV far enough that you need to charge, you are better off driving 70 because any time you make driving faster you will lose it and more when you have to charge more.
 

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You're missing the point. When you road trip in an EV far enough that you need to charge, you are better off driving 70 because any time you make driving faster you will lose it and more when you have to charge more.
My two cents: he is not missing the point. He does not want to drive 70, because that dump truck driving 75 mph will run him over.
 

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You're missing the point. When you road trip in an EV far enough that you need to charge, you are better off driving 70 because any time you make driving faster you will lose it and more when you have to charge more.
EXACTLY.......thank you
 

eastern refugee

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My two cents: he is not missing the point. He does not want to drive 70, because that dump truck driving 75 mph will run him over.
Actually i have done 70/75/80.....on the I-5. 75 is the sweet spot and you do not have to charge as often. Over a 300 mile trip I charged for all of 8 minutes for $7.75. I can deal with the loss of 8 minutes plus maybe another 6 to get off of the freeway and back on. In short 300 miles at $7.75 is quite livable. I charge at home. My wife and i with 2 MME drive roughly 4000 miles per month in total. Our cost at home has been less than $100.00 for both an FE/premium. We have zero issue doing long trips. simply put anyone arguing ICE versus EV simply refuses to change their thought pattern. Just for the heck of it we are driving from Bakersfield to Palm Springs to check out the building of the new arena there for hockey as well as checking the time and charging stops.

EV puts fun back into driving. Instead of just boring driving we now get to play with different aspects of driving to see how it works.
 

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Actually i have done 70/75/80.....on the I-5. 75 is the sweet spot and you do not have to charge as often. Over a 300 mile trip I charged for all of 8 minutes for $7.75. I can deal with the loss of 8 minutes plus maybe another 6 to get off of the freeway and back on. In short 300 miles at $7.75 is quite livable. I charge at home. My wife and i with 2 MME drive roughly 4000 miles per month in total. Our cost at home has been less than $100.00 for both an FE/premium. We have zero issue doing long trips. simply put anyone arguing ICE versus EV simply refuses to change their thought pattern. Just for the heck of it we are driving from Bakersfield to Palm Springs to check out the building of the new arena there for hockey as well as checking the time and charging stops.

EV puts fun back into driving. Instead of just boring driving we now get to play with different aspects of driving to see how it works.
Sound like you've got this process down. So at 8 min., is that at 150kW, or 20kWh onboarded?

Sounds you like you might have a go to spot to rely on, Is there any competition for the taps when you roll in? Are you able to schedule the charge in advance, or is it first come, first serve?

What do you do during the recharge time? Do you stay with the vehicle and wait it out? Explore nearby retail, or dining?
 
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