Senate Bill Deal to Expand EV Tax Credits (7/27/2022)

[ARK]

If this passes, it will be really bad for Rivian. They would have had several years of credits left, but now all their vehicles over $80k won’t qualify at all. The same is true for the higher trims of the F-150 Lightning, but Ford was going to run out of credits after next year anyway.

Ford’s timing is really good with this, might not miss a beat as the $7,500 tax credit was to begin its phase out.

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[generaltso]

Ford’s timing is really good with this, might not miss a beat as the $7,500 tax credit was to begin its phase out.

Yeah, but they’ve got some work to do to make sure the MME is classified as an SUV by next year.

 

[Pushrods&Capacitors]

Well, $300K joint filing means we’re safe

 

[Keeperofthe7keys]

Don't get excited, Sinema will still sink it.

This is how the rebates should be done, if they are going to be done at all. Target an affordable car for the masses and not subsidize a toy for somebody that can afford it.

The biggest issue with the current credits is they're non-refundable, so you have to have a higher income to get the full benefit. This is a bigger issue than income or price limits. Though yeah obviously Someone making 200k doesn't need help buying their Taycan. The middle class family might need help buying their Rivan to fit the kids in, though. Granted that example might just be that a high end vehicle is the only full size SUV atm.

 

[jbooth]

If oil and gas (and farming/ethanol) didn't have massive federal subsidies, I might be bothered about the "handout to the luxury EV car manufacturers." But they do, so, really, screw them for their whining and manufactured/astroturfed outrage.

I do think the max price cap is a very bad plan. Not because I think the feds should subsidize someone's 150k+ lucid air dream edition or whatever. No, I think it is bad because it will encourage the manufacturers to play games which will inevitably end up being consumer-hostile. See also tesla and the super low range model 3 in Canada.

What sort of games? I'm thinking like that, where they sell it with a "small", software limited battery... and then you can subscribe (rather than a single unlock payment) to get your full capacity. Oh look, now you're a locked in subscription revenue stream. And autopilot. And heated seats. And mirror memory. And ...

There's already enough rent-seeking corporate behavior. We don't need anything that encourages it. I'm willing to subsidize a few lucid airs to not live in that world.

 

[Keeperofthe7keys]

That was in reference to proposed price caps to qualify, not the credit being non-refundable, sorry that wasn't clear evidently.

 

[voxel]

Interesting clause/loophole.

"(l) TRANSITION RULE.—Solely for purposes of the
application of section 30D of the Internal Revenue Code
of 1986, in the case of a taxpayer that—
(1) after December 31, 2021, and before the
date of enactment of this Act, purchased, or entered
into a written binding contract to purchase, a new qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle (as defined in section 30D(d)(1) of the Internal Revenue
Code of 1986, as in effect on the day before the date
of enactment of this Act), and
(2) placed such vehicle in service on or after the
date of enactment of this Act"

 

[BigMach-E]

I mean, I was considering abandoning my Blazer EV SS reservation almost as soon as I made it, but ...if my resale on my Mach E is decent, and I can negotiate MSRP on the Blazer, I might actually switch now.

 

[dbsb3233]

If the tax credits are so critical to EV adoption, why is it that every single EV built gets sold right away or they are all on back order? That includes all the Tesla and GM EVs. The problem is not a lack of customers, it is a lack of capacity to build them.

Yep. Frankly, it's a huge waste of taxpayer money, because virtually every EV made not only sells immediately, but often has months-long waiting lists for it. Makes no sense to waste taxpayer money on products that would sell like hotcakes anyway.

If they're gonna throw our money around like that, they should make apartment and hotel EVSE installations the target. That's the lagging area that needs a push. The EVs themselves are already rolling. So is DCFC network expansion. Lots of federal, state, and private investment already happening there. What's lagging is Level 2 rollout plans, especially for apartments.

 

[dbsb3233]

Yeah, but they’ve got some work to do to make sure the MME is classified as an SUV by next year.

I doubt that's happening. But what could happen is stripping our some features on the Premiums to get them just under $55,000. That's the kind of unintended consequences you get when placing arbitrary price limits in legislation like this. $7500 difference just because it goes $500 over. Horrible design (but par for the course for government manipulation).

 

[Orangefirefish]

the 7500 tax credit was a significant part on my decision to purchase a mach e. If it wasn't there I probably would have gone in another direction.
True early adopters don't need much of an incentive. they just like getting into the leading (bleeding) edge. For a new idea to take hold or pass the tipping point there needs to be about a 5% adoption from the public. EVs are almost there.
The tax code has been used continuously to try and influence our behavior.
just my 2cents.

But here’s the thing, if you didn’t buy yours, someone else would have snapped it up. The tax credit is baloney when it comes to consumers. It will benefit the manufacturers and in turn the shareholders.

 

[JohnFoxeSheets]

True. I'm a bit confused to about something too and hoping someone can clear this up for me. having Manchin approve of this is being made out to be a big deal. And it is. But is this being passed through reconciliation or will they still need Republicans to get on board for it to beat a filibuster?

I love it when people speak knowledgeably about Senate rules...

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