Seriously considering the Tesla Y now, talk me down

Maric

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Now that Tesla won't be the only game in town and will have lots of peer competition, their edge in resale value should disappear. 4 years from now a 2021 Tesla should fall in resale value just as much as a 2021 Mach-E, IMO. Or a 2021 ID4, or a 2021 XC40 Recharge, etc.
This article lends to that theory. Because Tesla was controlling the resale market by taking back all leased vehicles and reselling themselves, this new Lease change is going to change the resale value they have enjoyed the last several years.

https://electrek.co/2020/12/10/tesla-announces-new-leasing-experience/amp/
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generaltso

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A Tesla model S,X,3 or Y pass you and you have to look twice to see which model it is.
You listed those in the wrong order. Elon wants it to be S3XY. Well, actually he wanted it to be SEXY, but Ford spoiled his plans by not letting him have the E.
 

DaveRuns

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Good suggestion malba2366! $7500/50 weeks = $150, for example. If you have income with a regular paycheck and a cooperative payroll person, you can figure out how many exemptions to take to decrease your Fed withholding that amount, and help make your payments during the first year of ownership.
I was told there would be no math involved. That's why I went to law school!
 

dbsb3233

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This article lends to that theory. Because Tesla was controlling the resale market by taking back all leased vehicles and reselling themselves, this new Lease change is going to change the resale value they have enjoyed the last several years.

https://electrek.co/2020/12/10/tesla-announces-new-leasing-experience/amp/
Yep, that too.

Probably the easiest way to think about it is by asking what used 2016 BEV would people be interested in buying today? The answer for most would likely be a Tesla just because they were about the only ones with decent range 4 years ago (a few other niche exceptions but very little). But 4 years from now it will be a whole different matter. Tesla's virtual monopoly over the BEV market will be over by then.
 

FredT

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Go into your forum profile, and select "ignoring". At the bottom of the page are 2 settings that are checked by default. Uncheck them and you'll se more:

Screen Shot 2020-12-11 at 11.55.58 AM.png
Well thank you very much for that! That's exactly the way it worked until recently. Somehow the "Remove ignored content" setting got checked.

I thought that he was probably the one that @trutolife27 was having a discussion with. :p
 


timbop

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Well thank you very much for that! That's exactly the way it worked until recently. Somehow the "Remove ignored content" setting got checked.

I thought that he was probably the one that @trutolife27 was having a discussion with. :p
yeah, there was an update to the forum a week or so ago, and either they added that setting or somehow defaulted it back to "checked"
 

dbsb3233

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yeah, there was an update to the forum a week or so ago, and either they added that setting or somehow defaulted it back to "checked"
I love those 2 new features (or maybe they were there before and I never knew). The whole point of IGNORE is to actually ignore, IMO. Not be reminded every time they post and be tempted to peek.

(Not that I have anyone on IGNORE anymore, now that the one I had to ignore is no longer present.)
 

MattG

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This may sound crazy, but I wonder if the Mach-E having such a smooth, flat underside might help it avoid high-centering as much? The thought being that an ICE vehicle often has all kind of bumps and indentations along the length of the underside that could "dig in" to snow if it does get high-centered, making it harder to get out (and more likely to dig in to begin with).

But with such a smooth, consistent underside, seems like it should slide right across the snow if it's deep enough to reach. Making it less likely to get stuck, and easier to get out if it does. And easier to rock out of a high-center if it does get suck.

Does that make any sense? Obviously ground clearance still matters because the bumper will just dig in, but as far as high-centering, seems like the smooth bottom might help.
Maybe! The question then is if the front air dam is strong enough to pack down some snow and also deal with berms.

I play a game with my Crosstrek sometimes, seeing how much I can let accumulate in the driveway before shoveling it (as you surely know, it’ll melt well if you can make do until the sun comes out). backing up, the rear bumper is nicely curved at the bottom to help the car ride up over the snow. pretty much impossible to get stuck in that car when it‘s wearing snow tires, though there have been times I’ve had to work it a bit.

my build date just got pushed out yet another week to 1/4. If they don’t fix the issues behind these delays, maybe I won’t get the car in time to give It a real winter test this season.
 

GoGoGadgetMachE

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ok but did you know Ford has had recalls? so that's where the real Nakwality problems are.

like I remember when I bought my Mustang or my Escort or my Sport Trac or my Fusion or my other Fusion clearly going through the 50-point fan produced checklist that started with "check the VIN" to make sure that the car was ready for delivery.
 
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Kamuelaflyer

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ok but did you know Ford has had recalls? so that's where the real Nakwality problems are.

like I remember when I bought my Mustang or my Escort or my Sport Trac or my Fusion or my other Fusion clearly going through the 50-point fan produced checklist that started with "check the VIN" to make sure that the car was ready for delivery.
About the worst thing that could happen with. a Ford Mustang Mach-e delivery, is they’ll bring the wrong one around front because two of you are picking up two different cars at almost the same time. I’d have bought a vehicle from Boeing or Tesla if I’d wanted a predelivwey nightmare checklist.

Somehow I don’t think our pre-delivery checklists will be more involved than:

1. Pretty, isn’t it?
2. Select “Unbridled.”
3. Have fun. Lots of fun.
 

GoGoGadgetMachE

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About the worst thing that could happen with. a Ford Mustang Mach-e delivery, is they’ll bring the wrong one around front because two of you are picking up two different cars at almost the same time. I’d have bought a vehicle from Boeing or Tesla if I’d wanted a predelivwey nightmare checklist.

Somehow I don’t think our pre-delivery checklists will be more involved than:

1. Pretty, isn’t it?
2. Select “Unbridled.”
3. Have fun. Lots of fun.
hmm maybe I should publish an app in the Play Store to help people with this checklist.
 

Nak

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This may sound crazy, but I wonder if the Mach-E having such a smooth, flat underside might help it avoid high-centering as much? The thought being that an ICE vehicle often has all kind of bumps and indentations along the length of the underside that could "dig in" to snow if it does get high-centered, making it harder to get out (and more likely to dig in to begin with).

But with such a smooth, consistent underside, seems like it should slide right across the snow if it's deep enough to reach. Making it less likely to get stuck, and easier to get out if it does. And easier to rock out of a high-center if it does get suck.

Does that make any sense? Obviously ground clearance still matters because the bumper will just dig in, but as far as high-centering, seems like the smooth bottom might help.
Yes and no. If you're in snow or sand up to the frame rails you're in worse trouble in an Ice vehicle because of everything hanging down below the rails. In most 4x4s that's going to be the pumpkins and the shock mounts possibly. But on an ICE 4x4, you measure your ground clearance from the lowest point. So just a couple of things are sticking into the snow when you're in deeper than your ground clearance. You're frame rails are still several inches or more higher. If you hit something solid with the pumpkin, you could be in trouble, but snow should push out of the way. (Unless you're in the Cascades, and then you might be in trouble. We call our snow "Cascade Cement.") With an EV, ground clearance is generally at the frame, so as soon as you hit snow or sand that deep you're in trouble. (Depending on the snow. A lot of snow east of the Cascades is light and fluffy and can be compacted to a degree.)

Given the weight of any EV out there, once you're sitting on the frame you're not going to be sliding anywhere. I know this from experience, LOL. An inch of clearance is a bigger deal in an EV, just because you get stuck so quickly when you exceed the depth. If you're in sand and sink 6.5", you will be stuck if your EV has 6" of ground clearance, and you won't be in an EV with 7". In an ICE 4x4 with 10" of ground clearance, you'll leave a skid mark from the pumpkins in 9" of sand. (For sake of simplicity I'm not going into the ground clearance lost when you air down your tires.)

Traction control can be an issue too. I've not driven an E in the snow obviously, so I don't know how that is implemented. With a Y, crawling around in deep heavy snow you can end up not moving fairly quickly, and the traction control really prevents rocking the car out. Engaging "Off Road" mode makes a huge difference in this scenario. The Y--and I believe the E as well--use open differentials and rely on traction control to get real AWD. If a wheel starts slipping the brake on that wheel is applied, which transfers torque to the opposite wheel. This is decidedly inferior to a differential that mechanically distributes torque. That's why the GT500 has a Torsen differential; it would just spin one tire if it relied on traction control. If I lived in an area where it snowed a lot, I'd install aftermarket Torsen type differentials front and rear. That, and a couple inches of lift, and the Mach-e could easily go toe to toe with the best snow cars out there. As it is, I'm sure the E will be great on snow plowed roads. Just hit berms with enough speed to get past them.
 

Nak

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I believe the Y comes with a heating coil as well for that reason. However, Bjorn Nyland did a comparison with his M3 without heat pump and a new one with a heat pump. While the energy used for heating his non-heat-pump car was much higher relative to the heat pump one, the overall impact on range and efficiency wasn't that high - on the order of 6% IIRC. That's just one test, but it is at least a real data point.
6% sounds pretty close given my experience, but it really depends on the temperature. If it's cold enough that there's no waste heat to scavenge from the battery or motors, then probably no advantage at all. I don't believe there is a heating coil in the Y. I'm pretty sure if it's cold enough, the motors are run inefficiently so that they produce enough waste heat to scavenge. It sounds inefficient, but apparently it's just as efficient as a heating coil. As long as the heat is being scavenged efficiently, the two methods are fairly identical.
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