Shopping for a Home Charger

[methorian]

The Grizzl-E comes in white now. I think this would look good outside, but for garages I'm glad I stuck with black.

Yea, I think that'd start looking pretty bad after a few months.

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[bshaw]

That's true on DCFC (L3) charging, but not sure it will do that on 240V (L2) as I suspect the power rate is still below the lowest taper levels. 48A x 240v = 11.5 kW. Most charge curves (that start at 150 kW) taper down to around 50 kW, or maybe even 25. But 11.5 should be safely below any taper amount, thus probably just remain constant.

Interesting. The guy at the roadshow is the one who told me that about the 80%. The unit they've been driving around was plugged in at the dealership and he pointed towards the 5 lights around the charger. He said the last one blinks and takes longer to get up to a full charge. The dealership did not have DCFC for them to plug into. It's also possible he did not know the details you mentioned above about taper levels.

 

[Thevanin]

The battery will start to taper even on L2 charging, but it likely won't start happening until > 90%

https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/charge-tapering.48093/#:~:text=Charge tapering occurs even on,then falls off rather dramatically.

 

[eltonlin]

I've been following this thread with interest. What I'm trying to understand is this: If you don't already have a 240V outlet available and are getting Chargepoint EVSE, why would you not get a 60A circuit with a hard wired install and charge at 48A? Based on the quotes I got from electricians, the installation cost is about the same as getting a 50A circuit and charging at 40A. Is there a downside I'm not seeing?

I spent much time looking at all options. What it came down to for me was panel capacity. While I *could* have supported a 60A circuit, the safest route was to drop down to 50A circuit. Considering it was way cheaper to add an outlet vs upgrading panel and all of the other stuff needed, I"m happy with 50A and a plug-in. Plus I have the flexibility/portability should I move/change EVSE.

 

[shutterbug]

• Some people have longer runs from their breaker box, where the heavier wire gets more expensive.

I get the other points, but not this one. I had electricians quote the work both ways. Sometimes getting a plug was a little more expensive, and sometimes less, but never more than $100.

 

[shutterbug]

Plus I have the flexibility/portability should I move/change EVSE.

Flexibility if you move — maybe, but how likely are you to replace the EVSE if it still works? And if it doesn't would you not want to call an electrician to troubleshoot before forking over hundreds of $$ for a new one.

As far as slower chargers being enough for overnight charging, I probably can get away with L1 charger. My commute (should we ever be allowed to go to work) is 5mi each way, and once I'm there I can charge on L2 charger for free. It's really not what I need, but what I want.

 

[timbop]

You can put a 14-50 outlet on a 50A circuit and connect your EVSE with a plug (instead of hardwire).
That way, if anything goes wrong with your EVSE, you could quickly plug in your mobile charger at home.
Or, you could easily switch to a different EVSE without hiring an electrician to change the hardwiring.

I think it might depend on what kind of electrical load you have at your disposal versus what you are drawing now. For instance, my home's electrical panel is 100 amps. While there is physical space for a 60 amp breaker, I'm probably already approaching the 100 amps that are available, thus, it probably wouldn't be wise to install a breaker that large.

• Some people don't have that much spare capacity in their electrical service.
• Some people have longer runs from their breaker box, where the heavier wire gets more expensive. Or might require a subpanel.
• Some people prefer to have a 14-50 outlet so they can plug in the included Ford Mobile Charger as backup, or to test it.
• For most people, 48A is overkill for overnight charging. Although it depends on your situation.

^ pretty much sums it up.

At 32A, you're charging at about 7.6 kw. To go from 10% to 80% on an ER battery it will take 8 hours. Even if your best rate kicks in at 11PM, the car would still be charged by 7AM. A 48A charger will take 5:20, which is still too slow when you need a quick top off during the day. So the only benefit is that charging will be done 3 hours before you get up.

I equate a 48A charger like a 30MP camera: is it really ever going to make a difference, especially since many older homes only have 125 AMP or less service?

 

[JamieGeek]

^ pretty much sums it up.

At 32A, you're charging at about 7.6 kw. To go from 10% to 80% on an ER battery it will take 8 hours. Even if your best rate kicks in at 11PM, the car would still be charged by 7AM. A 48A charger will take 5:20, which is still too slow when you need a quick top off during the day. So the only benefit is that charging will be done 3 hours before you get up.

I equate a 48A charger like a 30MP camera: is it really ever going to make a difference, especially since many older homes only have 125 AMP or less service?

You might be surprised what a couple hours on a Level-2 can do. Yeah its slow but it can be enough for those evening errands.

With the Focus Electric I would frequently add enough miles to it while eating dinner to cover any local activities in the evening.

Granted the Mach-E, even in SR form, has a lot more miles available than the 70 mile Focus Electric....

 

[shutterbug]

I equate a 48A charger like a 30MP camera: is it really ever going to make a difference, especially since many older homes only have 125 AMP or less service?

Let's unpack this and separate the 2 issues. Will 50% charging ever make the difference? I think likely. Should you spend a ton of money to get there? Probably not. My question is when the cost is the same, why would you choose the slower charging. That is if, and only if the cost is the same.

WRT cameras, you may think that 30MP, or even 60MP is overkill, there is not a huge market for 20 year old 5MP cameras. I think there aren't all that many that have resolution of less than 20MP.

 

[SnBGC]

I've been following this thread with interest. What I'm trying to understand is this: If you don't already have a 240V outlet available and are getting Chargepoint EVSE, why would you not get a 60A circuit with a hard wired install and charge at 48A? Based on the quotes I got from electricians, the installation cost is about the same as getting a 50A circuit and charging at 40A. Is there a downside I'm not seeing?

Nope. Your thinking is spot on provided that your electrician has already confirmed you have adequate load capacity in your panel.

 

[dbsb3233]

Yeah, if all the costs were the about same, and you have plenty of panel capacity, not much reason not to just go with the 48A charger if you don't care about having a 14-50 outlet to plug in the included charger to occasionally test it or use it as a backup.

In my case, the cost wasn't the same. I bought a Grizzl-E for $400 instead. It's 40A max, which is plenty sufficient for my needs.

 

[ChasingCoral]

Yeah, if all the costs were the about same, and you have plenty of panel capacity, not much reason not to just go with the 48A charger if you don't care about having a 14-50 outlet to plug in the included charger to occasionally test it or use it as a backup.

In my case, the cost wasn't the same. I bought a Grizzl-E for $400 instead. It's 40A max, which is plenty sufficient for my needs.

I would go a step farther. If it were just the few hundred dollars of cost difference among the chargers, I'd go with the 48A charger in a heartbeat. It would be nice to have the ability to charge faster when desired.

Unfortunately, ours is one of those many older homes with a 125A panel. The cost of upgrading to a larger panel or second panel adds well over $1000 for us. We only had capacity for a 30A breaker so could only install a 24A charger when we bought our Leaf. That means I can't even use the included charger on 240V. However, the charger we have has done fine for the past 3 years.

I don't see us driving the Mach E more on a normal week than the Leaf. In fact, I'm retiring next month and with COVID I see us driving less. As a result, the 24A should suffice.

 

[SnBGC]

Yeah, if all the costs were the about same, and you have plenty of panel capacity, not much reason not to just go with the 48A charger if you don't care about having a 14-50 outlet to plug in the included charger to occasionally test it or use it as a backup.

In my case, the cost wasn't the same. I bought a Grizzl-E for $400 instead. It's 40A max, which is plenty sufficient for my needs.

Agree.
When the Mach E arrives, my Focus Electric is going to my wife and her C-Max Energi is going to my daughter (they both are super excited...)!

My daughter will need a L2 EVSE so we are going to run a 60 amp circuit with a 14-50 receptacle and give her a spare 32 amp EVSE that we have on hand. The installation of the electrical circuit will qualify for a federal tax rebate (up to $1000) if I understand it correctly.

When she outgrows the PHEV and goes full BEV then she will be able to purchase a higher wattage EVSE and already have the circuit in place to hard wire into.

 

[highland58]

I have a juicebox 40 on a 14-50 outlet with 50A breaker. It reports that my Clarity is drawing 30 amps when charging, and shows about 6.6kwh charging rate. I'm wondering if the Mach-E will pull the max 40A the juicebox is rated for, or something less. It would be 40 x 240 = 9.6kw it appears, not that much less than 11.5kw.

 

[ChasingCoral]

I have a juicebox 40 on a 14-50 outlet with 50A breaker. It reports that my Clarity is drawing 30 amps when charging, and shows about 6.6kwh charging rate. I'm wondering if the Mach-E will pull the max 40A the juicebox is rated for, or something less. It would be 40 x 240 = 9.6kw it appears, not that much less than 11.5kw.

I'll bet it pulls 9.6kW. Horses can drink fast.

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