Shopping for a Home Charger

[ChasingCoral]

Great... and they are quizzing the dealer trainees based on the 54 page document. Hope v2 of the document is already out.

Fortunately the quiz doesn't get to that level of detail. They only refer to 120V and 240V outlets.
https://evbite.com/leaked-ford-mustang-mach-e-dealership-training/

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[jhalkias]

So the consensus seems to be that the Ford Charger is only 48 amps without any ability to use a lower amperage circuit, and is ONLY hardwired. Honestly, that seems kind of dumb on their part. I'm going to get my estimate first, see what he says about cost, but I too am leaning toward the Grizzl-E at 40 amps should be more than enough and save the money.

 

[jhalkias]

Heavier wire and more expensive breaker.

Just looked at breakers for my Square D panel online with Home Depot, and 40, 50, or 60 dual pole 240 breakers are all the same price. $22.68. Am I missing something?

 

[ChasingCoral]

So the consensus seems to be that the Ford Charger is only 48 amps without any ability to use a lower amperage circuit, and is ONLY hardwired. Honestly, that seems kind of dumb on their part. I'm going to get my estimate first, see what he says about cost, but I too am leaning toward the Grizzl-E at 40 amps should be more than enough and save the money.

The Ford is hard-wired but I recall it may be Software adjustable but you’d have to check.

 

[RyZt]

Just looked at breakers for my Square D panel online with Home Depot, and 40, 50, or 60 dual pole 240 breakers are all the same price. $22.68. Am I missing something?

In California (and states that adopted NEC 2017), "210.8(B) Other than dwelling units: All single-phase receptacles rated 150 volts to ground or less, 50 amperes or less and three-phase receptacles rated 150 volts to ground or less, 100 amperes or less installed in the following locations shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel."

Take your Square D brand as example, 50 amps GFCI breaker (QO250GFICP) costs $129 on home depot. It is only available for in store pick up (in my area), not available for shipping. 40amps GFCI is unavailable (and I couldn't find it in any reputable online retailer).

So 60 amps will actually be cheaper ($22.68) if you choose to go without GFCI (whereas you don't have a choice for 40, 50 amps assuming you're going to follow the rules.)

The above is wrong, home is a dwelling unit, and that section doesn't apply. 210.8(A) applies to residential units. But 210.8(A) says "Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptables installed in the locations specified in 210.8(A)(1) through (10) shall have ground-fault circuit-interruptor protection for personnel." Therefore, it doesn't apply to 240V outlets.

 

[jhalkias]

In California (and states that adopted NEC 2017), "All single-phase receptacles rated 150 volts to ground or less, 50 amperes or less and three-phase receptacles rated 150 volts to ground or less, 100 amperes or less installed in the following locations shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel."

"Following locations" includes garage.

Take your Square D brand as example, 50 amps GFCI breaker (QO250GFICP) costs $129 on home depot. It is only available for in store pick up (in my area), not available for shipping. 40amps GFCI is unavailable (and I couldn't find it in any reputable online retailer).

So 60 amps will actually be cheaper ($22.68) if you choose to go without GFCI (whereas you don't have a choice for 40, 50 amps)

Yup. See that now. None of those are available at my HD or online. I assume GFCI would also be required in Ohio, but I guess I will find out.

 

[dbsb3233]

Yup. See that now. None of those are available at my HD or online. I assume GFCI would also be required in Ohio, but I guess I will find out.

That really confused me too. My panel is an Eaton. The basic double-pole 50A breaker on HD is $11, while the GFCI is $102. Huge difference. I'm guessing a garage outlet requires GFCI in CO but I'm not sure.

Just like working on cars, this was all so much simpler 50 years ago. ?

Got an electrician coming out to give me an estimate next week. I'm afraid my $500 guess (to install one stupid outlet!) is gonna be even more than that. Oh well, I just keep repeating "30% tax break... 30% tax break...".

 

[dbsb3233]

Well this is interesting. I was just reading through the installation manual for the Grizzl-E. It says do NOT install a GFCI breaker, because the unit has GFCI protection in it. I wonder how that meshes with local code for a garage outlet, since it's not hardwired (i.e. uses an outlet that could be unplugged and something else plugged into)?

Guess I'll see what the electrician says.

 

[JamieGeek]

Well this is interesting. I was just reading through the installation manual for the Grizzl-E. It says do NOT install a GFCI breaker, because the unit has GFCI protection in it. I wonder how that meshes with local code for a garage outlet, since it's not hardwired (i.e. uses an outlet that could be unplugged and something else plugged into)?

Guess I'll see what the electrician says.

Granted I'm in Michigan and my wiring was done back in 2013 but: My EV plug in the garage doesn't have a GFCI on it. It goes straight from the plug to the breakers.

I walked around with the city inspector when they came for final inspection and he didn't mention a thing about GFCI (it is possible they make an exception because the plug is for an EV). He was actually more interested in the car at the time LOL. "Focus Electric? Don't see many of those?"

 

[jhalkias]

Well this is interesting. I was just reading through the installation manual for the Grizzl-E. It says do NOT install a GFCI breaker, because the unit has GFCI protection in it. I wonder how that meshes with local code for a garage outlet, since it's not hardwired (i.e. uses an outlet that could be unplugged and something else plugged into)?

Guess I'll see what the electrician says.

It does say you can hardwire.

 

[RyZt]

Well this is interesting. I was just reading through the installation manual for the Grizzl-E. It says do NOT install a GFCI breaker, because the unit has GFCI protection in it. I wonder how that meshes with local code for a garage outlet, since it's not hardwired (i.e. uses an outlet that could be unplugged and something else plugged into)?

Guess I'll see what the electrician says.

My statement about NEC 2017 was wrong. That section I quoted doesn't apply to homes. I edited my original comment.

@JamieGeek @jhalkias @dbsb3233 sorry for the confusion!

 

[jhalkias]

My statement about NEC 2017 was wrong. That section I quoted doesn't apply to homes. I edited my original comment.

@JamieGeek @jhalkias @dbsb3233 sorry for the confusion!

I just have to believe that because of the nature of these devices, and that they can be installed outside, that they have GFIC built in like the Grizzl-E

 

[dbsb3233]

It does say you can hardwire.

I don't want to though. I want the outlet so I can also use it to test the Ford Mobile Charger periodically, and use it as backup if necessary.

 

[macchiaz-o]

So the consensus seems to be that the Ford Charger is only 48 amps without any ability to use a lower amperage circuit, and is ONLY hardwired.

Don't include me in this consensus. I haven't seen an installation manual or any real details. Until I do, I'm thinking it will have an internal dial or dip switches or similar, to configure it to match the circuit. But maybe not. Don't know yet.

Further, Ford says to hardwire. But, if it does have current limiting options built in, and you reduce it to 40A or less, than I see no reason why I couldn't wire it to a plug if I wanted to. Again, we'll have to wait and see.

 

[methorian]

Just looked at breakers for my Square D panel online with Home Depot, and 40, 50, or 60 dual pole 240 breakers are all the same price. $22.68. Am I missing something?

Nope - Amperage rating generally doesn't increase the cost/price of the breaker. If you have any local electrical distributors nearby, you could probably get that breaker and other supplies cheaper than a big box store.

In regards to a GFCI breaker...

I believe you generally are not required to use a GFCI receptacle/breaker for dedicated circuits. Like your washing machine/dryer/etc which should hold true for your EVSE receptacle as well.

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