Solar payoff....worth it?

[TRP]

I have a bid from a solar install company for 7.6kw system. Included is 9kw battery backup, 7.6kw inverter, all racking for a ground mount, wiring and trenching, installed comes to about $30000.

Based on a solar calculator estimating what that system can expect to generate here looks like we would see about $79 mo on each bill averaged out over the year.

We pay 9-10cents per kw, let's call it 10cents for arguments sake.
Our total bill last year was $1653.55
Est output of solar system would be $943.70
Leaving a balance of $709.85 or about $59.16mo for our usage.
Last year average bill was $137.79.
Difference between old and set new bill would be $78.63.

Tax credit is 26% right now so total installed price after tax credit would be $22200 with the tax credit being $7800.

Admittedly I am not good at the maths but my best effort shows about a 20yr to pay off estimate. That hardly seems worth the effort to install it. Am I missing something or is that about right?

Now, I'm all for going green, I drive electric for crying out loud, but 20yrs is a bit much, in my opinion.

What say you?

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[TruWrecks]

If you put a little effort in to optimizing your energy usage you can run a house on that power. Plus you will be able to run most of your house during a grid outage. That alone is worth it to me. And it will fuel your car for free during the day. That makes driving cheaper.

 

[Scooby24]

7.6kw for 22k? Jesus...no.

I realize it's intimidating but you CAN do this yourself. 13.86kw for 15k after tax credit. Given my usage (a bit high due to crypto mining), ROI is 4-5 years.

 

[TruWrecks]

7.6kw for 22k? Jesus...no.

I realize it's intimidating but you CAN do this yourself. 13.86kw for 15k after tax credit. Given my usage (a bit high due to crypto mining), ROI is 4-5 years.

Can't do that price if you want batteries. They are the expensive part.

 

[Scooby24]

Can't do that price if you want batteries. They are the expensive part.

Yes but depending on where you live and what you need Solar for, Batteries may be a complete waste of money. I'm in KS where our Grid is quite reliable. I'm in a new subdivision with buried lines so we don't have outages often. Our provider (Evergy) does net metering so during the day any excess I produce is metered and I'm returned that power at night for free (1:1). For strictly capacity sake, the Grid is my battery.

 

[EELinneman]

Tim, I'm in a similar situation as you are. We just signed a contract for a 14.6KWh system without a battery. We live in Colorado at the base of the Rockies, so our day is a bit shorter - like 2 streets west of me the mountains just go up steep enough that there is no more building for a mile or so.

I'm doing this for a couple of reasons: the economics are one. We have a HELOC at 3.35% rather than pay the solar loans - which is a scam as a cash price lowered the system cost almost $8K! and our energy rates are a bit higher than yours. My ROI will be around 8 to 8.5 years depending on factors I don't control.

The other reason is that our electric company is terrible. I want to minimize my interaction with them though I realize that by selling them generation, I am increasing my engagement with them. That will be reduced in a couple of years when we put a battery system in. I'm holding off on that as the supply chain is terrible and is driving the costs up, plus waiting for some technology improvements and chemistry changes. THe Lithium-Iron-Phosphate is now starting to hit the market and it seems good, but let's see in 2 years.

If you are doing this as an investment, the 20-year cycle is not your friend. You would be better off investing that in my opinion. But, this is your decision and based on your priorities. For me, it's not that I am doing this for the planet. I don't think the planet cares what I personally do.

 

[TruWrecks]

The system I am getting installed in 8.4 kWh with 20 kWh of batteries and it is more than $35k. That is with install and all permits and requires hardware for grid connections.

This is with solar panels that are warrantied for 25 years to maintain 96% output and should last 40 to 50 years before they need to be replaced.

 

[ZuleMME]

Tim, I'm in a similar situation as you are. We just signed a contract for a 14.6KWh system without a battery. We live in Colorado at the base of the Rockies, so our day is a bit shorter - like 2 streets west of me the mountains just go up steep enough that there is no more building for a mile or so.

I'm doing this for a couple of reasons: the economics are one. We have a HELOC at 3.35% rather than pay the solar loans - which is a scam as a cash price lowered the system cost almost $8K! and our energy rates are a bit higher than yours. My ROI will be around 8 to 8.5 years depending on factors I don't control.

The other reason is that our electric company is terrible. I want to minimize my interaction with them though I realize that by selling them generation, I am increasing my engagement with them. That will be reduced in a couple of years when we put a battery system in. I'm holding off on that as the supply chain is terrible and is driving the costs up, plus waiting for some technology improvements and chemistry changes. THe Lithium-Iron-Phosphate is now starting to hit the market and it seems good, but let's see in 2 years.

If you are doing this as an investment, the 20-year cycle is not your friend. You would be better off investing that in my opinion. But, this is your decision and based on your priorities. For me, it's not that I am doing this for the planet. I don't think the planet cares what I personally do.

Who are you going with? Being local to you I'd be interested in getting them to give me a quote.

 

[bruceski88]

I have a bid from a solar install company for 7.6kw system. Included is 9kw battery backup, 7.6kw inverter, all racking for a ground mount, wiring and trenching, installed comes to about $30000.

Based on a solar calculator estimating what that system can expect to generate here looks like we would see about $79 mo on each bill averaged out over the year.

We pay 9-10cents per kw, let's call it 10cents for arguments sake.
Our total bill last year was $1653.55
Est output of solar system would be $943.70
Leaving a balance of $709.85 or about $59.16mo for our usage.
Last year average bill was $137.79.
Difference between old and set new bill would be $78.63.

Tax credit is 26% right now so total installed price after tax credit would be $22200 with the tax credit being $7800.

Admittedly I am not good at the maths but my best effort shows about a 20yr to pay off estimate. That hardly seems worth the effort to install it. Am I missing something or is that about right?

Now, I'm all for going green, I drive electric for crying out loud, but 20yrs is a bit much, in my opinion.

What say you?

First of all, why do you need battery backup? Batteries are very expensive and you are only getting 1/5 of a days energy consumption from those expensive batteries. I purchased a 3.3 kW system on a 2 story house over 2 yrs ago for about $12.5K before credits. I also just installed on my own on a different 1 story house 2.4kW for less than $5K. We pay more than twice what you do for electricity. Would not do it unless payback is 10 yrs or less. I am at under 5.

 

[TRP]

Why are we looking at batteries? Well, TN does not offer Net Metering and will only play 2cents/kw for any excess we generate so it is better to just keep it on site with a bank of batteries.

With the exception fo the line to the house all electric is in the air around here and we have a metric crap ton of trees up here on the Cumberland Plateau.

With the battery we are hoping the be able to charge them during the day and then use that stored kw to power the house over night when usage is pretty low for us. TV for a few hours and either an AC unit or a forced air furnace, maybe dishwasher. I'd have to do more math and see if that 9kw battery will do that.

The company we are talking to uses Generac PWRCell equipment. The initial battery install will include 9kw of storage, upgradable within the same cabinet to a total of 18kw. Costs about $1900 per extra 3kw module. Just insert into cabinet and plug in a power and couple of communication cables and done.

The money for the system will come out of a retirement account and the 26% tax credit will cover the income tax hit for removing it, no early withdraw penalties.

Not looking to make money on this, we could just leave money in that account and let it work. I would like to figure out a solution to get this system to pay for itself in a reasonable amount of time. 20+ yrs just seems too damned long.

 

[GoGoGadgetMachE]

The logic I used was that it helped me be greener, bottom line. I haven't done batteries yet, but next year, I will, because I generate well above use most days and even with net metering in Ohio, it bugs me that overnight I am drawing from the grid.... Plus my power is stable but I still want the comfort of having backup just in case.

Realistically, I will never really make the money back, but I knew that going in. I mean, this was my... Fifth maybe new car in a row and that won't be money I fully make back either.

 

[TRP]

The logic I used was that it helped me be greener, bottom line. I haven't done batteries yet, but next year, I will, because I generate well above use most days and even with net metering in Ohio, it bugs me that overnight I am drawing from the grid.... Plus my power is stable but I still want the comfort of having backup just in case.

Realistically, I will never really make the money back, but I knew that going in. I mean, this was my... Fifth maybe new car in a row and that won't be money I fully make back either.

Ok, I get that logic. I pretty much agree with it too.

Since TN does not offer net metering there is no plan in this bid to even get a meter that runs backwards. They will only pay for the excess we generate at the end of the month and this system as designed now only supplies about half of our needs, so the battery makes more sense so we can just store excess here and use it over night.

I'm not giving up on this project, I just need to explore it a bit further and make sure I fully understand what we are getting into.

If we move forward the plan is to wait till after the new year anyway.

Thanks for all the input fellas/gals

 

[RedStallion]

I have a bid from a solar install company for 7.6kw system. Included is 9kw battery backup, 7.6kw inverter, all racking for a ground mount, wiring and trenching, installed comes to about $30000.

Based on a solar calculator estimating what that system can expect to generate here looks like we would see about $79 mo on each bill averaged out over the year.

We pay 9-10cents per kw, let's call it 10cents for arguments sake.
Our total bill last year was $1653.55
Est output of solar system would be $943.70
Leaving a balance of $709.85 or about $59.16mo for our usage.
Last year average bill was $137.79.
Difference between old and set new bill would be $78.63.

Tax credit is 26% right now so total installed price after tax credit would be $22200 with the tax credit being $7800.

Admittedly I am not good at the maths but my best effort shows about a 20yr to pay off estimate. That hardly seems worth the effort to install it. Am I missing something or is that about right?

Now, I'm all for going green, I drive electric for crying out loud, but 20yrs is a bit much, in my opinion.

What say you?

Doesn't make sense. Taking into account the opportunity cost and depreciation you are actually losing money. If you are concerned about utility prices, put that $22200 into XLU, it will offset the price increases and some more with very low risk.

 

[TTT]

If I read correctly, you said you have a quote, you should have several. There are a lot of ways to approach this and what one engineer has proposed may not be the best option for you.

Next, a ground based system is the most expensive way to go. It may not be your best option. My home system has the worst roof imaginable for solar. To get enough panels on my roof I have some facing North, East, West, and some South - hardly optimal - but my system is paying for itself in 5.5 years.

Maybe if it was on your roof there would be partial shade at times - ok, maybe you need a system with micro inverters.

I talked to multiple companies, looked at multiple configurations, and many different sizes and layout before I found the sweet.

Every situation is different, so you need to look closely to find the right solution.

In general though - buy - don't lease. Don't just do Solar - get rid of all your incandescent bulbs and go LED. Talk with your utility company and find out about rebates and special rate plans, some areas have special metering and incentives just for EVs.

 

[AZBill]

I live in Phoenix and have really high usage, up to 6000 KWH in the hot months. I spend $5K per year. so I just got a solar quote, they quoted 30KW system at $100K. 20 year payoff, no way, it is not worth it. Every few years I hear costs are coming down, but each time I get a quote it is ridiculous.

My personal opinion is this, if it cannot pay for itself in 5 years, then it is too expensive. 90% of my usage is off peak, including charging my two EVs and running my pool pumps, laundry, etc.

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