Some of us just got screwed by New Jersey - but Ford is stepping up!

[sockmeister]

That really sucks. But, right next door here in the greater philly area, we get absolutely nothing. Well, there's a $500 rebate, but your EV must have an MRSP of less than $50,000. Not happening for me.

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[krafty81]

I have heard all the "affluent" arguments before, but I would offer that they need people to buy these cars at whatever price point they can create. Then the infrastructure will grow and these cars will be available to all with a vast charging network. They need to start somewhere....

 

[buffasnow]

Wouldn't surprise me if it came back, but at a fraction on the value.

I didn't realize they were also exempt from sales tax. That's huge in itself. My sales tax with be nearly $4000 (in CO, not NJ) . And that's at a (somewhat) lower rate than the metro are pays.

Mixed bag in NY State - no sales tax would be awesome. 8.75% sales tax on MSRP + delivery in Western NY (different counties have different taxes on top of statewide tax, so the sales tax varies by county). $2K off as a direct-to-dealer payment from NYS as long as MSRP < $60K. At least NY does not have a yearly use tax though.....
As far as I can tell, no EV registration cost penalty or bonus in NY, although cost is at least somewhat relative to weight, so it will be more expensive than current ICEs. I think there is a small discount on EZ-Pass tolls for EVs.

 

[Johnny]

The NJ incentive rebate was a big part of my decision to choose EV over ICE. I encourage everyone here who is a NJ resident to contact the Governor's office: https://www.nj.gov/governor/contact/all/

Feel free to copy the text from my letter as necessary.

I've also contacted my dealer to let them know, in case they can do anything to compensate to save the sale.

Governor Murphy,

First off, thank you very much for your leadership during this pandemic.

Second, I wanted to bring to your attention an announcement put out by the state board of public utilities today: https://www.nj.gov/bpu/newsroom/2020/approved/20201214.html

This announcement leaves myself and many other citizens of this Great State of New Jersey in the lurch. Let me further explain: when the Charge Up New Jersey program was launched, I was very excited about it. I am one who like the idea of the clean energy of an EV, but didn't like the higher cost. With the NJ $5,000 rebate (plus the IRS credit), all of a sudden EVs became similarly priced to ICE vehicles.

Also this year, carmakers other than Tesla began to come out with good looking EVs with sufficient range. I happened to be drawn to Ford's Mustang Mach-E. The NJ rebate made that car affordable to me. In June, I placed an order for a Ford Mustang Mach-E with my local Paramus dealer knowing that the Charge Up NJ program was meant to be a long term program.

Due to COVID delays in production, I won't have delivery of my car until early February. Originally, this wasn't a problem and I was happy to wait. Now, it's a problem.

Without notice, NJBPU ended the program effective immediately.

I ask that you please intervene in the board's decision. Otherwise, I can tell you for sure you will have one less EV and one more ICE vehicle on the road. And I know there are many other citizens that this will also affect who will likely do the same thing that I will do.

Please feel free to call or email me with any questions.

Sincerely,

John Van Buiten

 

[dbsb3233]

Mixed bag in NY State - no sales tax would be awesome. 8.75% sales tax on MSRP + delivery in Western NY (different counties have different taxes on top of statewide tax, so the sales tax varies by county). $2K off as a direct-to-dealer payment from NYS as long as MSRP < $60K. At least NY does not have a yearly use tax though.....
As far as I can tell, no EV registration cost penalty or bonus in NY, although cost is at least somewhat relative to weight, so it will be more expensive than current ICEs. I think there is a small discount on EZ-Pass tolls for EVs.

I'll get a $2500 state tax credit in CO. I was hoping for 2020 delivery where the tax credit is $4000, one of the best in the country, but that's not gonna happen now. $2500 from the state is still big though.

I feel bad for the NJ people that just saw their state credits get seriously cut at the last minute. I'd be pissed too if that happened at the last minute like this without notice.

But at the same time, I had not realized just how massive those state subsidies were. Looks like the NJ sales tax is 6.625%. On a $50k model that's a $3312 credit/exemption that's still in place. I may be wrong, but that alone may still be the biggest state EV subsidy in the country. Another $5000 (making the total state subsidy over $8000, plus another $7500 federal credit) is insane. Almost $16k in subsidies. Wow.

 

[stroszek]

I don't know NJ politics that well but from what I understand the boss of the NJ legislature, and therefore the guy who would really have the power to fund or kill this, is George Norcross III who is unelected and basically at war with the governor. https://www.propublica.org/series/the-real-bosses-of-new-jersey

 

[Johnny]

From the sales manager at my dealer:

Good Afternoon,

I reached out to ford and my Rep is telling me Ford is working on something. I will update you once I hear more.

Hopefully this means Ford is working to give a rebate to people in NJ to compensate for NJPBU's tomfoolery!

 

[4pac]

Mixed bag in NY State - no sales tax would be awesome. 8.75% sales tax on MSRP + delivery in Western NY (different counties have different taxes on top of statewide tax, so the sales tax varies by county). $2K off as a direct-to-dealer payment from NYS as long as MSRP < $60K. At least NY does not have a yearly use tax though.....
As far as I can tell, no EV registration cost penalty or bonus in NY, although cost is at least somewhat relative to weight, so it will be more expensive than current ICEs. I think there is a small discount on EZ-Pass tolls for EVs.

So basically even with the $2k rebate from the state NYers are still behind NJ due to the 8.75% sales tax. NJ had one of the best incentives in the US, plus the no sales tax. Sorry NJ, I know its like the rug being pulled out from under you but now your similar to most states.

 

[dbsb3233]

From the sales manager at my dealer:


Hopefully this means Ford is working to give a rebate to people in NJ to compensate for NJPBU's tomfoolery!

Not that I don't feel bad for the people in NJ who's state government cut their massive EV subsidy at the last minute (while still leaving the other big subsidy in place), but IMO Ford has no business cutting the price for people that live there just because the state government pulled some crap.

Ford giving those customers a better deal that all the rest of us don't get would be grossly unfair. Ford shouldn't be making up for the state government. If anyone is going to make up for that, it should be the state government.

 

[Johnny]

Not that I don't feel bad for the people in NJ who's state government cut their massive EV subsidy at the last minute, but IMO Ford has no business cutting the price for people that live there just because the state government pulled some crap.

Ford giving those customers a better deal that all the rest of us don't get would be grossly unfair.

It's no less fair than the fact that NJ had a $5,000 state rebate and PA, NY, CT, etc. didn't.

When we in NJ placed our order, NJ had a rebate of $5,000. This was part of our purchase decision when we placed the order in June. NJ pulls the rebate without notice in December. Without the rebate from NJ, the car no longer makes economical sense for me, and I'm assuming many others in NJ. So without any action from either NJ or Ford to replace the rebate, many of us in NJ will be pulling our orders.

I'm assuming Ford would rather have the sale than not, so either they pony up (pun intended) some extra manufacturer rebate, or lose a few thousand sales.

By the way, Ford rebates in general are regionalized. See much discussion on this forum about how some regions have a $2,000 Ford rebate, some $1,000, some $0. So is that not fair as well?

Is it not fair that Starbucks/Dunkin/name your brand charge more for a cup of coffee in wealthy neighborhoods than poorer neighborhoods? I don't think business is about being fair. If Ford wants the sales in NJ, they'll do something about it. If not, they won't.

 

[dbsb3233]

I had the same situation when I took delivery of my Model 3 on April 15th 2019 and the Canadian federal government announced a $5,000 incentive starting the 1st of May 2019. These incentives paid by your own taxes to others that you can’t benefit because of 14 days period after waiting 1030 days.

This sucks

It does suck. These are the perils that happen when government artificially tries to manipulate markets.

 

[Johnny]

I had the same situation when I took delivery of my Model 3 on April 15th 2019 and the Canadian federal government announced a $5,000 incentive starting the 1st of May 2019. These incentives paid by your own taxes to others that you can’t benefit because of 14 days period after waiting 1030 days.

This sucks

Agreed that sucks, however the NJ situation is different. You weren't counting on the $5,000 when you purchased the M3. We in NJ were counting on the $5,000 and it was pulled from underneath us.

 

[timbop]

Yeah, the first thing my wife said was to call/write to the BPU, governor, and our state representatives. I get that the budget got shot to hell, so I'm going to suggest that when they do reinstate it they should include funding and mechanisms to cover those who bought between Dec 15th and whenever the program kicks off again.

I encourage others to do the same.

 

[timbop]

Agreed that sucks, however the NJ situation is different. You weren't counting on the $5,000 when you purchased the M3. We in NJ were counting on the $5,000 and it was pulled from underneath us.

Exactly; I've known about the rebate program details since Jan 17th and a month away from delivery they temporarily change the rules. It will work as a DISINCENTIVE for EV purchases until reinstated.

 

[dbsb3233]

It's no less fair than the fact that NJ had a $5,000 state rebate and PA, NY, CT, etc. didn't.

When we in NJ placed our order, NJ had a rebate of $5,000. This was part of our purchase decision when we placed the order in June. NJ pulls the rebate without notice in December. Without the rebate from NJ, the car no longer makes economical sense for me, and I'm assuming many others in NJ. So without any action from either NJ or Ford to replace the rebate, many of us in NJ will be pulling our orders.

I'm assuming Ford would rather have the sale than not, so either they pony up (pun intended) some extra manufacturer rebate, or lose a few thousand sales.

By the way, Ford rebates in general are regionalized. See much discussion on this forum about how some regions have a $2,000 Ford rebate, some $1,000, some $0. So is that not fair as well?

Is it not fair that Starbucks/Dunkin/name your brand charge more for a cup of coffee in wealthy neighborhoods than poorer neighborhoods? I don't think business is about being fair. If Ford wants the sales in NJ, they'll do something about it. If not, they won't.

It's absolutely unfair that your state government reneged on one of your two huge taxpayer subsidies, yes. That's an unfairness by your state government, not by Ford. It would not be fair for Ford to suddenly give those customers a huge discount (from Ford) that wasn't already going to happen. Especially in a market that still has one of the biggest subsidies of any state (6.625% sales tax exemption). That's over $3000. It may be still be the biggest state tax credit in 2021 (surely one of the top 3, anyway).

Your beef is with the state, and it's a valid beef, with the state government. If the state doesn't remedy it and some customers cancel because the huge state subsidy became just a large subsidy, Ford should have no problem selling those MMEs to other customers. Demand is higher than supply for the 2021s.

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