Standalone Coolant Heater

[HuntingPudel]

I’m not too concerned when driving, my thoughts are geared more to getting a deeper charge as I do in the summer months. My thinking is if the batteries could be heated independently while charging perhaps less energy would be wasted in heat putting more energy into the battery charge. I could be overthinking this and maybe it’s not worth the effort. —as for losing heat while driving maybe covering up the radiator partially or even fully may help. I’m new to the forum so maybe this has been suggested. This site seems to be a busy place with loads of info.

The problem doesn't have its root in a "deeper charge." It's in chemical activity within the battery. As the battery's temperature drops, the chemicals become more sluggish resulting in less ability to hold and deliver power. Were you able to achieve a higher electrical capacity while the battery is warmer, it would simply fall away as the battery is cooled while driving. Preventing that heat loss is more practical and effective. At this point there isn't enough ground clearance to create an effective enough insulation barrier.

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[SpaceEVDriver]

I’m not too concerned when driving, my thoughts are geared more to getting a deeper charge as I do in the summer months. My thinking is if the batteries could be heated independently while charging perhaps less energy would be wasted in heat putting more energy into the battery charge. I could be overthinking this and maybe it’s not worth the effort. —as for losing heat while driving maybe covering up the radiator partially or even fully may help. I’m new to the forum so maybe this has been suggested. This site seems to be a busy place with loads of info.

The radiator is already protected by the front louvers when it doesn't need to lose heat.

As mentioned by @HuntingPudel the battery chemistry slows way down when the temperatures decrease. There's literally less energy to be extracted. A "deeper charge" isn't a meaningful phrase. A battery at 100% state of charge at -10 ⁰C has less energy to give compared with the same battery at 100% state of charge at 25 ⁰C.

If the car isn't plugged into a L2 EVSE/charger when it's cold out for long periods of time, the car won't be able to keep the battery from becoming cold soaked (lose all heat to the environment).

But even if you keep the battery warm over night, the battery becomes cold within a short time after starting your drive.

As soon as you start driving and the battery temperature drops toward ambient, there is less available energy and so lower range. The only way to mitigate that is to keep the battery temperature higher. The only way to do that is to have it better insulated or have a more efficient heating system for the battery. The 5.7" clearance of the mustang makes insulation difficult. Mitigating the forced convection may have a limited impact. Engineering a more efficient heating system is a big research problem.

 

[GJTBOW]

Yes I understand the makeup of the current battery system and how it works and the effects temperature has on it and look forward to the solid state. I commute 50,000 kilometres/yr and have had my Mache for about 1.5yrs. In my observations I lose about a 50/50 range drop between driving in winter and charging in winter. This is not exact but I do lose more range charging than I do driving in winter and some of that is also lost due to not being on a charger during work hours. I’m thinking if the battery is warmer during the charging stage I will get more range at the start of the day and have more range on the commute home. As it stands I’m skeptical to venture off the beaten path on the way home and have yet to use a public charging station. In the summer this is not a concern. Just a thought and curious to hear others thoughts.
My driving mileage is less in the winter than summer and that is to be expected and really no different that an ICE vehicle.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

One thing you might try, if you have a L2 charger and a DCFC within about 30 km of where your vehicle is parked:
An hour before you leave, set the DCFC as a destination in the Ford navigation, tell it to start the routing. But don't go anywhere. Let the car sit for ~30 minutes. The car will warm the battery to precondition it for DC charging. I've seen the battery temperatures go up while plugged in to my L2 charger, but others haven't seen any change while plugged in. I don't get the very, very cold here. Try it both plugged and unplugged. If it doesn't warm the battery while on the L2, you can plug it back in for 30 minutes to recharge some just before you leave.

The battery will still drop in temperature as you drive and your range will quickly drop, but it'll start off warmer.

Without a plug at work, you're pretty limited in what you can do to keep the battery warm.

 

[ghaskins]

I didn't know that much about the battery temperature degradation properties, so I found found the discussion interesting. I am curious though: how are you all quantifying the affects of battery temperature vs other low temperature incidentals such as increased climate control loads (particularly for those of us with pre-2025 resistive heat) ?

 

[GJTBOW]

I’ve only had one winter with mine. I preheat in the morning setting a departure time while plugged into the L2 home charger. I set my nav destination for a quick charge station to try an maintain some battery heat. I keep my interior set for 20*C 68F. On my commute home my batteries are pretty cold. I set the nav for a quick charge station and to heat my batteries up before I get on the highway by taking a longer route to the highway in stop and go to help heat the batteries before I get into higher speeds. Is it working? It seems to be. After 1.5 years I haven’t noticed any decline in charging. On my commute there is a quick charge station at the half way point which is an advantage to and from for the battery warming cycle.
I hope that make sense to you!

 

[david_quick]

I always just told them "Everything is cubic money. How fast will your wallet go?"

I always asked what problem are you trying to solve. Money solves a lot of imaginary problems.

 

[GJTBOW]

I always asked what problem are you trying to solve. Money solves a lot of imaginary problems.

some people have both those problems

 

[HuntingPudel]

some people have both those problems

I just have imaginary money.

Oh, and kibble. Kibble is good to have.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I didn't know that much about the battery temperature degradation properties, so I found found the discussion interesting. I am curious though: how are you all quantifying the affects of battery temperature vs other low temperature incidentals such as increased climate control loads (particularly for those of us with pre-2025 resistive heat) ?

Note, the change in capacity based on temperature is not degradation—that’s a different issue. Degradation does happen because of changing operating temperatures, but the reduced capacity discussed here is a temporary issue, not degradation.

There are a lot of different papers out there that describe the various capacity adjustments based on temperature and chemistry. In general, for lithium batteries, 20-60 ºC is the sweet zone for good performance. The standard temperature is 25 ºC; that’s what’s used to determine the cell and battery capacity. So the Mustang’s NMC ER has a useable capacity of 91.7 kWh as determined at 25 ºC at 100% state of charge. Any deviation in the battery temperature and the useable capacity will be different. Below 0 ºC the capacity is much lower. By about -40 ºC, the battery capacity can be as low as 11% of the standard capacity at 25 ºC.

Other low-temperature considerations like climate loads, etc., draw from that reduced capacity. At the rate they typically use. So if the resistive heater would draw N kW at 10 ºC, it’ll draw N kW at 20 ºC and N kW -20 ºC. As the temperatures drop, that N is a higher percentage of the available capacity of the battery.

NMC behaves differently from LFP which behaves differently from other chemistries. But the basics are similar. It’s different for lithium vs sodium vs solid vs etc…

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