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THIS THREAD ALSO ENCOMPASSES "SERVICE VEHICLE SOON" (SVS) ERRORS RELATED TO THE HVBJB.
Last updated:
03/18/23 (Updated TSB)
01/07/23 (Updated for post replacement failure language)
10/02/22 (Removed forum assistance language)
09/25/22 (Added rental car process and what failure is not)
09/23/22 (Added link to data aggregation)
09/17/22 (Updated with current known info, reformatted and removed old update history)
09/14/22 (Updated count of SSN post recall)
09/13/22 (Added Interactive Map)
PLEASE READ IF YOU SUSPECT FAILURE:
If you believe that you have HVBJB Failure - Either post or pre-recall - Please take the following actions:
HVBJB Failure Post-Recall will either be reduced power with a "Service Vehicle Soon" message or the same as the above pre-recall symptoms.
Regardless of the type of failure we recommend that you open a case with the BEV team at Ford using the phone numbers provided at the bottom of this post - (800) 392-3673 USA / (800) 565-3673 Canada (Closed on Weekends). Please also follow the guidance in the section below for HVBJB Failure Recommendations To Stay Safe.
Please don't send us your VIN for general look-ups or other issues. Please post those requests here.
What failure IS NOT:
Jail bars, gray(grey) bars on their own are not indicative of failure or preeminent failure. These bars on their own (visible on GT's only) can be caused by ambient temperature, pre-conditioning, post-DCFC, low SOC, high draw events and more. It's normal to see gray bars in many circumstances. HVBJB failure will always have a powertrain malfunction wrench (can't be dismissed) accompanied with either no motive power or reduced motive power along with notifications (can be dismissed).
Preface:
The purpose of this post is to bring information together so that people can reference what is known about the HVBJB issue. While some of us might know more than we are publicly talking about, for confidentiality reasons, we cannot disclose everything. I'll do my best to help calm nerves, be honest and not violate agreements in the process. All of the information below has been discussed on this forum, extracted from posted DTC's and service repair orders or gathered via non-confidential communication.
I am an MME GTPE owner myself. My vehicle was just as susceptible as any other owner and eventually I had HVBJB failure. Obviously, we all have our own way of mentally dealing with things. I, personally, did not worry about this happening to me and I don't think people should worry. We don't worry about flat tires, alternators, getting in an accident etc. Being prepared and having the necessary knowledge is not only relieving to the mind, but the best and only course of action in this case, as of now.
Finally, "Stop Safely Now" and "Service Vehicle Soon" are both generic messages and are used for many different critical faults. This post is specifically about the failure of the High Voltage Battery Junction Box.
Other commonly referred to names:
In 2021 we had a few members starting to report that their cars would say "stop safely now". It was attributed by the forum members as something related to the cold as it was mostly happening to people in colder climates. Many people also attributed the issue to faulty LVB's most likely due to the fact that the MME previously had LVB issues. As time went on, a few of us attempted to reassure people that it wasn't LVBs at all. Obviously, those with repair orders, whom this affected had insight into what was happening. They received repair orders for the BECM and HVBJB. It came to light through this process and those of us with insight that it wasn't the LVB.
The LVB was often blamed early on because of the aforementioned previous issue and also because when the HVBJB fails it no longer charges the LVB. Thus, leaving the LVB to die. This is like an alternator going out in an ICE vehicle. The battery is dead, but only as a result of a bad alternator.
Many months ago, it was disclosed that temperature does play a part in the failure of the HVBJB, and that will be discussed further down.
When this happens (pre-recall), the driver will receive a "stop safely now" indicator followed by the car being bricked essentially. The car must be towed in and diagnostic codes will reveal that the contactors in the HVBJB are stuck, either open or closed. When this happens post-recall the aforementioned pre-recall scenario is possible, but it's also possible to receive "service vehicle soon" with limited power. The car is normally able to be driven, but can fail with SSN at any time. Bringing it to the dealership ASAP is advised if the car is operable.
In the affected vehicles, it is possible that the high voltage battery main contactors may overheat, which can result in an open contactor or welding condition. Should the contactors weld closed while driving, a powertrain malfunction warning light will be illuminated on the next drive cycle, along with a no start condition.
The resolution:
When SSN happens, the only thing you can do is have the car towed and the HVBJB replaced along with the BECM (the BECM was originally replaced at the onset of this issue, but has since been determined to not need replacing). Some people report that it took 2 days while other dealers took months. If you received SVS and can get the car to the dealership you should ASAP.
Ford has a new version of the HVBJB that's now being installed into problematic cars. There have been reports that the new versions are also failing, but it's unknown if this is "round 2" of problems or just a few bad parts or previously bad fixes.
Ford has issued a recall in an attempt to mitigate the SSN errors in favor of SVS, but it doesn't always work.
Prevalence:
Unknown - But likely much higher in GT/GTPE variants. I suspect that most GT/GTPE vehicles will have failure at some point.
Is my car immune to this:
If built prior to May 24, 2022 the simple answer is, no. This can happen to any MME, of any MY, in any climate, anywhere in the world built prior to May 24, 2022. Post May 24, 2022 build dates should be safe, but some are reporting failures after May 24, 2022 as well.
Is my car more prone to this:
GT models are far more prone to having HVBJB failure to due to higher draw of power.
Is temperature to blame:
Temperature of the contactors is one of the main issues causing them to become molten and weld open or closed. Ambient temperature doesn't play a role that we've seen.
What is Ford doing:
Ford is now fitting cars that have a defective HVBJB with a revised HVBJB. Further details will likely follow. See this post and below. This is for failed HVBJB incidents.
Ford has issued a recall for this problem. While not a "fix", it's supposed to mitigate risk, although that doesn't work all the time either.
Revised Part numbers:
All part numbers have been redacted because the information from Ford keeps changing. I've been told that there's no way to get an old HVBJB as they have all been pulled. So the part numbers really shouldn't be necessary anymore.
Can I have the part replaced under warranty?:
Ford will replace the HVBJB with the revised part, under warranty if you get any of the contactor stuck open/closed DTCs or if you get a DTC post recall about the contactors being on their last leg. As of this update on 07/19/22, they will not replace it unless the proper diagnostic codes are thrown.
Can I pay to have it replaced?:
Maybe ... Some people have reported that their dealership will not replace it unless there's an associated code indicating failure. Others have ordered the part which is about $750. Dealerships should only charge a max of 7 hours labor (as that's what Ford pays them under warranty) to replace the HVBJB. There are members who have had it replaced at their own expense.
Are parts available or on backorder:
The replacement HVBJBs are available. There's some on this forum who like to say otherwise and they are ill informed. Some logistical challenges are being seen late summer of 2022. This doesn't mean that the parts are back ordered it just means that you need to get corporate involved to sort out the logistics. This is just one of the reasons that it's important to get the Ford BEV team involved.
Will this be a recall:
Recall 22S41 is now in place.
See this post: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/safety-recall-22s41-2021-2022-mach-e-hvbjb-recall.18681/
On 07/09/22 the recall faced server errors preventing it's deployment at the dealer level temporarily. See this thread: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/no-hvbjb-software-recall-for-you-recall-the-recall.19486/ The issue was resolved a few days later but if you had your car at the dealership during that time frame you might not have received the update if you thought you had. It might be a good idea to have your VIN checked for the recall via the VIN check thread.
On 08/02/22 a TSB was issued to help dealers clarify the replacement and give them insight into why the LVB would be low or dead. See this thread: https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...-message-low-or-discharged-12v-battery.20243/. A new TSB was issued: TSB 23-2020, which is in the file section at the bottom of this post.
Can I get SSN even after the software recall:
Well yes it can, because it's not a fix here's one example where the vehicle isn't totally bricked but still has to have the HVBJB replaced. There's many just like it on the forum including my own here.
As of right now I estimate that there's approximately a 35% chance that the software will not prevent SSN. This is based on data collected on the forum and may not represent the entire MME population as a whole.
DTC's by Drivability:
The following DTCs will allow the car to be driven in most cases resulting in SVS:
Nothing really... We've seen reports of members who have been driving up hills going the speed limit who have had failure and likewise we've seen members on their commute to the office have failure. While there are likely guaranteed actions to cause failure, there's no known preventative measures. Attempting to cause failure only accelerates what is seemingly inevitable with some HVBJBs. Anyone who says "don't charge" should be regarded as ill informed. There's members who have had failure at 5k who never used a DCFC and there's members like me that had failure at 23k and I DCFC at least 3-4 times a week.
HVBJB Failure Recommendations To Stay Safe:
My personal recommendations -
Ford Roadside (to get towed):
(800) 241-3673
Ford customer support (to get a case started)(only open M-F):
(800) 392-3673 - USA
(800) 565-3673 - Canada
Rental Cars:
If you have failure Ford should be putting you in a loaner or a rental car (as of Sep, 2022). In order to get a rental approval the car must be diagnosed by the dealer first. It is important to get Ford corporate involved in order to assist with the rental car process.
If the car isn't able to be driven I would suggest you ask the dealership which rental car place they use and then get a rental from that same location. You will have to initiate the rental process out-of-pocket. Once the car is diagnosed or Ford corporate approves the rental car then they should be able to take over the contract. Since rentals are charged when the car is returned (a hold is placed at the start, but not a charge), the dealership should be able to assume responsibility for the contract which will prevent you from being charged. Rentals are approved on a 10 day basis. Every 10 days the rental will need to be re-approved.
Links to other beneficial resources:
Interactive Dealership Replacement Map
Data Aggregation for HVBJB Failures
How to tow an MME
Failure Survey
List of members with HVBJB failure
File a NHTSA complaint
Initialism used in this post:
BECM = Battery Energy Control Module
DTC = Diagnostic Trouble Code
EV = Electric Vechile
GTPE = GT Performance Edition
HVB = High Voltage Battery
HVBJB = High Voltage Battery Junction Box
LVB = Low Voltage Battery
MME = Mustang Mach E
MY = Model Year
SOBDMC = Secondary Onboard Diagnostic Module - C
SSN = Stop Safely Now
SVS = Service Vehicle Soon
Other resources:
The HVBJB in the MME is not a unique component to Ford. It's an essential part of EVs. Contactors getting stuck also isn't new or unique to Ford. Using Google you might be able to find other instances in other makes (like this) with little nuggets of information that might just be very similar to the MME issues. Like the above link mentions, we have also seen members get similar errors when there's an electrical short, and it's not a HVBJB failure but presents its self similarly.
In closing:
If you think I should add information to this post, let me know and I'll be more than happy to consider it and maintain this post. As more information is made public or authorized for public consumption I'll update it as well. I'm not active much more on this forum due to all the negativity and hyperbole here, but felt this post was necessary because of all the outside communication I receive from other members.
Pictures:
These are pictures thanks to @markboris - his post
This is the OLD - BAD version of the HVBJB thanks to @Scooby24 and his post here:
Last updated:
03/18/23 (Updated TSB)
01/07/23 (Updated for post replacement failure language)
10/02/22 (Removed forum assistance language)
09/25/22 (Added rental car process and what failure is not)
09/23/22 (Added link to data aggregation)
09/17/22 (Updated with current known info, reformatted and removed old update history)
09/14/22 (Updated count of SSN post recall)
09/13/22 (Added Interactive Map)
PLEASE READ IF YOU SUSPECT FAILURE:
If you believe that you have HVBJB Failure - Either post or pre-recall - Please take the following actions:
- If you need a tow please call Ford Roadside (see below)
- Reference this map for some of the known dealerships that have performed a recall already. There's many that aren't on this map as well, but maybe you'll find a green marker near you!
- Call Ford Corporate and get a case started with the BEV Team (see below)
- If your dealership attempts to give you the car back without replacement of the HVBJB when it IS the root cause, please educate them and ask them to kindly refer to TSB 22-2178. Do not pick up your car in these cases and contact your case manager immediately.
HVBJB Failure Post-Recall will either be reduced power with a "Service Vehicle Soon" message or the same as the above pre-recall symptoms.
Regardless of the type of failure we recommend that you open a case with the BEV team at Ford using the phone numbers provided at the bottom of this post - (800) 392-3673 USA / (800) 565-3673 Canada (Closed on Weekends). Please also follow the guidance in the section below for HVBJB Failure Recommendations To Stay Safe.
Please don't send us your VIN for general look-ups or other issues. Please post those requests here.
What failure IS NOT:
Jail bars, gray(grey) bars on their own are not indicative of failure or preeminent failure. These bars on their own (visible on GT's only) can be caused by ambient temperature, pre-conditioning, post-DCFC, low SOC, high draw events and more. It's normal to see gray bars in many circumstances. HVBJB failure will always have a powertrain malfunction wrench (can't be dismissed) accompanied with either no motive power or reduced motive power along with notifications (can be dismissed).
Preface:
The purpose of this post is to bring information together so that people can reference what is known about the HVBJB issue. While some of us might know more than we are publicly talking about, for confidentiality reasons, we cannot disclose everything. I'll do my best to help calm nerves, be honest and not violate agreements in the process. All of the information below has been discussed on this forum, extracted from posted DTC's and service repair orders or gathered via non-confidential communication.
I am an MME GTPE owner myself. My vehicle was just as susceptible as any other owner and eventually I had HVBJB failure. Obviously, we all have our own way of mentally dealing with things. I, personally, did not worry about this happening to me and I don't think people should worry. We don't worry about flat tires, alternators, getting in an accident etc. Being prepared and having the necessary knowledge is not only relieving to the mind, but the best and only course of action in this case, as of now.
Finally, "Stop Safely Now" and "Service Vehicle Soon" are both generic messages and are used for many different critical faults. This post is specifically about the failure of the High Voltage Battery Junction Box.
Other commonly referred to names:
- LVB Battery Failure
- HVJB Failure
- BECM Failure
- High Voltage Battery Issue
In 2021 we had a few members starting to report that their cars would say "stop safely now". It was attributed by the forum members as something related to the cold as it was mostly happening to people in colder climates. Many people also attributed the issue to faulty LVB's most likely due to the fact that the MME previously had LVB issues. As time went on, a few of us attempted to reassure people that it wasn't LVBs at all. Obviously, those with repair orders, whom this affected had insight into what was happening. They received repair orders for the BECM and HVBJB. It came to light through this process and those of us with insight that it wasn't the LVB.
The LVB was often blamed early on because of the aforementioned previous issue and also because when the HVBJB fails it no longer charges the LVB. Thus, leaving the LVB to die. This is like an alternator going out in an ICE vehicle. The battery is dead, but only as a result of a bad alternator.
Many months ago, it was disclosed that temperature does play a part in the failure of the HVBJB, and that will be discussed further down.
When this happens (pre-recall), the driver will receive a "stop safely now" indicator followed by the car being bricked essentially. The car must be towed in and diagnostic codes will reveal that the contactors in the HVBJB are stuck, either open or closed. When this happens post-recall the aforementioned pre-recall scenario is possible, but it's also possible to receive "service vehicle soon" with limited power. The car is normally able to be driven, but can fail with SSN at any time. Bringing it to the dealership ASAP is advised if the car is operable.
In the affected vehicles, it is possible that the high voltage battery main contactors may overheat, which can result in an open contactor or welding condition. Should the contactors weld closed while driving, a powertrain malfunction warning light will be illuminated on the next drive cycle, along with a no start condition.
The resolution:
When SSN happens, the only thing you can do is have the car towed and the HVBJB replaced along with the BECM (the BECM was originally replaced at the onset of this issue, but has since been determined to not need replacing). Some people report that it took 2 days while other dealers took months. If you received SVS and can get the car to the dealership you should ASAP.
Ford has a new version of the HVBJB that's now being installed into problematic cars. There have been reports that the new versions are also failing, but it's unknown if this is "round 2" of problems or just a few bad parts or previously bad fixes.
Ford has issued a recall in an attempt to mitigate the SSN errors in favor of SVS, but it doesn't always work.
Prevalence:
Unknown - But likely much higher in GT/GTPE variants. I suspect that most GT/GTPE vehicles will have failure at some point.
Is my car immune to this:
If built prior to May 24, 2022 the simple answer is, no. This can happen to any MME, of any MY, in any climate, anywhere in the world built prior to May 24, 2022. Post May 24, 2022 build dates should be safe, but some are reporting failures after May 24, 2022 as well.
Is my car more prone to this:
GT models are far more prone to having HVBJB failure to due to higher draw of power.
Is temperature to blame:
Temperature of the contactors is one of the main issues causing them to become molten and weld open or closed. Ambient temperature doesn't play a role that we've seen.
What is Ford doing:
Ford is now fitting cars that have a defective HVBJB with a revised HVBJB. Further details will likely follow. See this post and below. This is for failed HVBJB incidents.
Ford has issued a recall for this problem. While not a "fix", it's supposed to mitigate risk, although that doesn't work all the time either.
Revised Part numbers:
All part numbers have been redacted because the information from Ford keeps changing. I've been told that there's no way to get an old HVBJB as they have all been pulled. So the part numbers really shouldn't be necessary anymore.
Can I have the part replaced under warranty?:
Ford will replace the HVBJB with the revised part, under warranty if you get any of the contactor stuck open/closed DTCs or if you get a DTC post recall about the contactors being on their last leg. As of this update on 07/19/22, they will not replace it unless the proper diagnostic codes are thrown.
Can I pay to have it replaced?:
Maybe ... Some people have reported that their dealership will not replace it unless there's an associated code indicating failure. Others have ordered the part which is about $750. Dealerships should only charge a max of 7 hours labor (as that's what Ford pays them under warranty) to replace the HVBJB. There are members who have had it replaced at their own expense.
Are parts available or on backorder:
The replacement HVBJBs are available. There's some on this forum who like to say otherwise and they are ill informed. Some logistical challenges are being seen late summer of 2022. This doesn't mean that the parts are back ordered it just means that you need to get corporate involved to sort out the logistics. This is just one of the reasons that it's important to get the Ford BEV team involved.
Will this be a recall:
Recall 22S41 is now in place.
See this post: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/safety-recall-22s41-2021-2022-mach-e-hvbjb-recall.18681/
On 07/09/22 the recall faced server errors preventing it's deployment at the dealer level temporarily. See this thread: https://www.macheforum.com/site/threads/no-hvbjb-software-recall-for-you-recall-the-recall.19486/ The issue was resolved a few days later but if you had your car at the dealership during that time frame you might not have received the update if you thought you had. It might be a good idea to have your VIN checked for the recall via the VIN check thread.
On 08/02/22 a TSB was issued to help dealers clarify the replacement and give them insight into why the LVB would be low or dead. See this thread: https://www.macheforum.com/site/thr...-message-low-or-discharged-12v-battery.20243/. A new TSB was issued: TSB 23-2020, which is in the file section at the bottom of this post.
Can I get SSN even after the software recall:
Well yes it can, because it's not a fix here's one example where the vehicle isn't totally bricked but still has to have the HVBJB replaced. There's many just like it on the forum including my own here.
As of right now I estimate that there's approximately a 35% chance that the software will not prevent SSN. This is based on data collected on the forum and may not represent the entire MME population as a whole.
DTC's by Drivability:
The following DTCs will allow the car to be driven in most cases resulting in SVS:
- BECM:
- P0ADA
- P0ADE
- BECM:
- P0563
- P0AA1
- P0AA2
- P0AA4
- P0AA5
- P0D10
- P0D0F
- P0C78
- P0AD9
- P0ADD
- P0D11
- SOBDMC:
- P0DA8
- P1A19
Nothing really... We've seen reports of members who have been driving up hills going the speed limit who have had failure and likewise we've seen members on their commute to the office have failure. While there are likely guaranteed actions to cause failure, there's no known preventative measures. Attempting to cause failure only accelerates what is seemingly inevitable with some HVBJBs. Anyone who says "don't charge" should be regarded as ill informed. There's members who have had failure at 5k who never used a DCFC and there's members like me that had failure at 23k and I DCFC at least 3-4 times a week.
HVBJB Failure Recommendations To Stay Safe:
My personal recommendations -
- Back in to all parking spots
- Back in to the garage
- Install tow stickers (see here) (purchase here)
- Keep a tow card in the car (see here)
- Know the procedure for a dead LVB jump (refer to the manual here) - Page 267
- Know how to emergency tow the vehicle. Don't rely on the tow company. (refer to the manual here) - Page 271
- DO NOT attempt to start the car over and over! Save the LVB as much as possible and keep the car off
- As long as it's safe to do so, unlatch the hood but leave it shut, not latched, to keep the light off
- Roll down a window and close the door to keep the cabin lights off
- If you are at home, connect the LVB to a battery maintainer or charger
- If it were me, I would call my insurance roadside over Ford since they are much quicker, but that's up to you.
- Look to have it towed to an EV specialty dealer. They have the tools and battery lift to fix this. Ensure the dealer will accept the car before having it towed there.
- Get a case logged with Ford Immediately. Ford can put pressure on the dealer and expedite the replacement parts.
Ford Roadside (to get towed):
(800) 241-3673
Ford customer support (to get a case started)(only open M-F):
(800) 392-3673 - USA
(800) 565-3673 - Canada
Rental Cars:
If you have failure Ford should be putting you in a loaner or a rental car (as of Sep, 2022). In order to get a rental approval the car must be diagnosed by the dealer first. It is important to get Ford corporate involved in order to assist with the rental car process.
If the car isn't able to be driven I would suggest you ask the dealership which rental car place they use and then get a rental from that same location. You will have to initiate the rental process out-of-pocket. Once the car is diagnosed or Ford corporate approves the rental car then they should be able to take over the contract. Since rentals are charged when the car is returned (a hold is placed at the start, but not a charge), the dealership should be able to assume responsibility for the contract which will prevent you from being charged. Rentals are approved on a 10 day basis. Every 10 days the rental will need to be re-approved.
Links to other beneficial resources:
Interactive Dealership Replacement Map
Data Aggregation for HVBJB Failures
How to tow an MME
Failure Survey
List of members with HVBJB failure
File a NHTSA complaint
Initialism used in this post:
BECM = Battery Energy Control Module
DTC = Diagnostic Trouble Code
EV = Electric Vechile
GTPE = GT Performance Edition
HVB = High Voltage Battery
HVBJB = High Voltage Battery Junction Box
LVB = Low Voltage Battery
MME = Mustang Mach E
MY = Model Year
SOBDMC = Secondary Onboard Diagnostic Module - C
SSN = Stop Safely Now
SVS = Service Vehicle Soon
Other resources:
The HVBJB in the MME is not a unique component to Ford. It's an essential part of EVs. Contactors getting stuck also isn't new or unique to Ford. Using Google you might be able to find other instances in other makes (like this) with little nuggets of information that might just be very similar to the MME issues. Like the above link mentions, we have also seen members get similar errors when there's an electrical short, and it's not a HVBJB failure but presents its self similarly.
In closing:
If you think I should add information to this post, let me know and I'll be more than happy to consider it and maintain this post. As more information is made public or authorized for public consumption I'll update it as well. I'm not active much more on this forum due to all the negativity and hyperbole here, but felt this post was necessary because of all the outside communication I receive from other members.
Pictures:
These are pictures thanks to @markboris - his post
This is the OLD - BAD version of the HVBJB thanks to @Scooby24 and his post here:
Sponsored
Last edited:
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